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Interview with Yung Lyun Ko and Shuk Ko

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Yung Lyun Ko arrived in the United States from Korea in 1972. As a young assistant professor at Kun Kook University in Seoul, he had decided to further his career through graduate study in educational statistics at Illinois State University in Bloomington, Illinois. After his family arrived in 1973, however, he could no longer afford to continue his study, and he went to work as an aspiration therapist in a hospital in Chicago. In 1974 Ko and his family moved to Minneapolis after Korean friends persuaded him to do so by saying that the Twin Cities provided a better environment to work and raise a family. Although Ko was a professional in Korea, his training was not transferable to American society, and he had to take a blue-collar job working at Crown Meat Company in Minneapolis. Frustrated by this situation, Ko threw himself into working for the Korean community through the Korean Association of Minnesota. In 1974 he was instrumental in establishing the Korean Institute, a Saturday school for Korean children of immigrants and adoptive parents, where classes in Korean language and culture, as well as social activities, were provided on a weekly basis. In 1979 Ko began a two-year term as president of the Korean Association. He and his family are also active in the Korean United Methodist Church in Oakdale. Shuk Ko arrived with the children in Bloomington, Illinois, in 1973 to join her husband. After they moved to Minnesota she also became active in Korean community organizations in addition to full-time work outside their home. As the wife of the president of the Korean Association she was expected to organize and persuade the women to do much of the work for special events in the Korean community, such as cooking meals for large numbers of people, and arranging children's activities. Shuk and the children are also active in the Korean United Methodist Church. SUBJECTS DISCUSSED: The Kos discuss the dynamics of the Korean community in the Twin Cities, and the cultural and religious organizations in the community. They also discuss the problems of childrearing in the immigrant situation and their concern that the children will develop a Korean or Korean-American identity. Yung Lyun discusses special events, such as Korean Day, that are organized annually by the Korean Association, and Shuk describes the changing family structure and extensive work of the women in community activities. COMMENTS ON INTERVIEW: Because he is president of the Korean Association, Yung Lyun Ko is in a position to know a great deal about the Korean community and to provide information on all the community organizations. Shuk Ko is also in a position to know about the contributions of the women to community events and programs.

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Yung Lyun Ko Shuk Ko Narrators Sarah Mason Interviewer December 19, 1979 Mounds View, Minnesota

Sarah Mason Yung Lyun Ko Shuk Ko

-SM -YK -SK

SM: I’m talking to Mr. Yung Lyun Ko in Mounds View, Minnesota on December 19, 1979. And this is an interview conducted under the auspices of the Minnesota Historical Society, and the interviewer is Sarah Mason. Mr. Ko, could you begin by telling us about your family in Korea and your background? Where you came from? YK: Yes, I came from Seoul, Korea. SM: Seoul. Yes. YK: I was an assistant professor in Kunkook University. SM: How do you spell that? YK: Kunkook. K-U-N-K-O-O-K University. SM: Kunkook University. YK: Yes. SM: And that’s in Seoul? YK: Yes, in Seoul. SM: Yes. I see. YK: My major is education statistics. SM: Yes. I see. 1

YK: I came here to study education statistics in Illinois State University, in Bloomington. SM: Oh. In Bloomington, Illinois. YK: Yes. SM: Illinois State University. YK: Yes. SM: I see. YK: So I quit this after seven months. SM: Oh. YK: Because my parents came over here after, you know, one . . . one year. SM: Who came here? YK: My family. After me, about one year, you know. SM: I see. I see. What year? YK: In 1973. SM: Your family came in 1973? YK: 1973, yes. SM: And you came in 1972? YK: 1972, yes, at first. SM: Yes. I see. YK: Yes. SM: So did you quit because of financial reasons? YK: Yes. SM: Yes, I see. YK: So . . . 2

SM: And then you started to work? YK: Yes, I started to work to . . . in some hospital, in Scarborough, you know. SM: Oh. YK: As an inhalation therapist. Do you know inhalation therapies? SM: International? YK: No. Inhalation. SM: Oh, inhalation? YK: Yes. Respiration therapist, you know, [unclear]. [Chuckles] SM: I see. Respiration therapy. YK: Yes. SM: Oh, well . . . YK: Just [unclear], you know. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. How did you . . . did you take some training for that? YK: Yes. There’s a three months, you know. SM: Oh, I see. I see. A respiration therapist. YK: Yes, therapist. But I quit and came over here. SM: To Minneapolis? YK: Yes. SM: Which year was that? YK: Oh . . . 1974. SM: 1974. YK: Yes, about there. 1974. 3

SM: Yes. How did you happen to come to Minnesota? Did you have friends here? YK: Yes, because I visited . . . yes, I visited my friends. SM: Oh. YK: She asked me, “Why don’t you stay here? [Unclear].” SM: Yes. YK: You’ll study easier and, you know, I like these people. SM: You like the people here? YK: Yes. Yes. SM: Yes. YK: The place is very quiet, different from [unclear] Scarborough. Scarborough is very busy, a lot ethnic groups in there, you know, I understand it . . . really hard to understand the [unclear] you know. SM: Oh, yes. YK: So it is easier, quiet, friendly. So I wanted to stay here. SM: Were there quite a few Koreans in Chicago? YK: Oh, there’s a . . . SM: Bigger community there. YK: Yes, bigger community. It’s about thirty thousand. SM: Of Koreans? YK: Yes, people. Yes, at the time. SM: Oh. YK: Now it’s fifty thousand. SM: Oh. YK: [Chuckles] 4

SM: Fifty thousand Koreans in Chicago. YK: Yes. Now. SM: So that’s quite different from here then. YK: Oh, sure. SM: About three or four thousand. YK: Yes. SM: Is that what you would say, is it four thousand? YK: It’s about three thousand. About three thousand. SM: About three thousand. YK: Scattered in the Twin Cities areas . . . all. SM: Yes. Yes. What about in the whole state but not counting the adopted children? YK: No, not . . . [unclear] three thousand [unclear] metropolitan area, you know. SM: Yes, most are in this area. YK: Most of them are. SM: I see. So that . . . you . . . there were some reasons you really liked Minnesota better. YK: Yes. Just it’s quiet, you know. SM: Yes. YK: People are very friendly. SM: Yes. Well, is the Korean community here different from Chicago, too? Is it closer? YK: I think so. It’s . . . most of Koreans in Chicago they are immigrants. SM: Oh. YK: They come over, as you know, come in . . . 5

SM: Yes. They’re blue collar workers? YK: Yes, some kind of blue collar there’s a lot of there. SM: Yes. But here it’s more professionals? YK: It’s professional, yes, jobs, mostly. SM: Yes. But there’s some blue collar here, aren’t there? YK: Yes, these are . . . these are increasing, you know. SM: Increasing. YK: Yes, increasing now. SM: But somebody told me that the blue collar here were . . . in Korea they were teachers or government workers . . . YK: Yes, most have, you know, graduated a university. SM: Yes. YK: Most of them. Maybe eighty percent. SM: Yes. So they weren’t blue collar in Korea? YK: No. SM: But when they came they could be. YK: Yes, they came here, yes, is working in factories, you know. SM: Yes. Do many people who are blue collar in Korea come here? Workers or . . .? YK: Sure. Well, yes. SM: Oh, some like relatives. YK: Some of them. Just there is a twenty . . . yes, twenty percent. SM: Twenty percent. I see. But about eighty percent then are professionals. YK: Yes, professionals. 6

SM: And are they professional here, too? YK: No. SM: Oh, not all here. YK: No, not all. SM: Yes. But some. Yes. YK: In Korea. SM: Yes. I see. Well, those who are professionals here, if they’re doctors or professors or something, do they get their training over here? YK: Sure. SM: Yes. YK: Like . . . I think so. SM: That’s the only way they can [unclear]. YK: Yes. Maybe, you know, two years, or three years, about that. Three . . . thirty-five doctors are in here, medical doctors in here. SM: Oh, really? Thirty-five? YK: Thirty-five. SM: Oh. In the Twin Cities or in the whole state? YK: Yes, is all in the Twin Cities. SM: Twin Cities. Oh, that’s a lot. Yes. Is that mostly at the university or all over different hospitals? YK: Mmmm, all over hospitals, you know. SM: All over. Yes. YK: Most of them, you know, are maybe . . . fifteen, about fifteen people in the university. SM: Oh. 7

YK: They work in the university, you know, professors, as researchers, you know. SM: Fifteen doctors or other professionals? YK: Yes. SM: Oh, doctors. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. And then some are professors of other subjects? YK: Mmmm, most of them are scientists. SM: Science. Mostly in science. YK: Yes. Mostly, yes. SM: I see. Well, of that eighty percent who were professionals in Korea . . . YK: Yes. SM: What percent of them are professionals here? YK: Mmmm. SM: Can they get their training there and then . . .? YK: Just a minute. [Pauses] Maybe six percent. SM: Just six percent. YK: Six percent, you know. SM: Oh. I see. So that’s very hard. YK: Yes, very hard, you know, because it’s that they have a lot of problem with the speaking and hearing. SM: Yes. Right. YK: Most of the Koreans are not . . . no problem with writing and reading. SM: Oh, yes. Right. Because they learn that in high school. 8

YK: Yes. SM: I see. Well, can some of them take a little more training here in their field? YK: They . . . I think they don’t have any chance to get, you know, take up training. SM: Oh. I see. Because they have to work. YK: Yes, have to work then right away, you know. They couldn’t do it. SM: Yes. Like what happened to you. YK: [Chuckles] Yes. SM: Yes. I see. YK: They couldn’t wait, you know. SM: Right. Because they have to eat. [Chuckles] YK: Yes. [unclear] life. SM: Yes. Right. I see. So you were already teaching in Korea. YK: Yes. SM: But then when you came here, you had to look for other kinds of work. YK: Yes. I was looking for this . . . a teaching job but these are very hard to get. SM: Yes, they are very hard for everyone to get. Yes. YK: Because, you know . . . So I’m taking, you know, blue collar jobs in [unclear] time then. SM: Yes. Well, do you think sometime you can get a teaching job? Or . . .? YK: I hope so, but . . . SM: Yes. It’s hard. YK: Very hard. Very hard. SM: It’s harder now, there’s too many teachers. YK: So I established, you know, established the Korean Institute. 9

SM: Yes. YK: By myself. SM: Oh, I see. And you’re in education. YK: Because, you know, I had experience. SM: Oh, yes. YK: You know, all of maybe fifteen years’ experience. SM: Oh, so you’ve started that. YK: Yes. Yes. SM: Oh. And what year was that? YK: It was 1954. SM: 1954. YK: I put together all the people so I . . . SM: 1974? YK: Yes, 1974. SM: 1974, yes. I see. YK: Exactly established this in 1975, but I started in 1974, you know. SM: Okay. YK: I started it. All the people, you know, [unclear] put together as I know, of this thing. SM: Yes. YK: You know what I mean? Why we need a Korean Institute, you know. SM: Yes. So you were working on talking to people about it. YK: Yes. Maybe six months, almost, you know. 10

SM: Oh. Yes. YK: They say they agree with me. SM: Yes. YK: About, you know, okay, we go this way. SM: I see. Then did you have to raise money for it or was it [unclear]? YK: Yes, first time we raise money, you know. SM: Yes. YK: Ten thousand dollars was the first time. SM: Oh. How did you raise that? YK: So we put together all . . . you know, we sent out. SM: Everybody sent donations? YK: Yes, that all sent, yes come up with here, so we put it together, we just, you know, started talking about that Korean Institute. SM: I see. YK: Why we need that. SM: Yes. YK: They sent us and now I explained everything, we need, you know, to help the child, you know, understand who are they . . . who they are. SM: Right. YK: You know. SM: Right. For their identities. YK: Yes, identity. SM: Yes. Well, that’s really important. YK: So everybody, you know, everybody agrees with me already, you know. 11

SM: Yes. YK: And also they have, you know, professional jobs, so they donated this. SM: Oh. YK: You know, and some of them were one thousand dollars, some of them sent five hundred dollars, you know, three hundred dollars. SM: Oh. I see. YK: Yes. SM: So there were some pretty big gifts there. YK: Yes, some very . . . you know, [unclear], too. SM: Yes. Yes. YK: Always that. SM: So that meets in a public school, right, the Korean Institute? YK: Yes, they are, this is in a public school. That they just . . . SM: Yes. [Unclear]? YK: Saturday, you know. Only Saturday. SM: Oh, but only on Saturdays. YK: Yes, Saturdays. SM: Yes. Is that all day Saturday or . . .? YK: Oh, four hours. SM: Four hours. YK: We’re teaching them Korean, you know, language. SM: Yes. YK: And Korean culture. 12

SM: Yes. YK: Korean dance, traditional dance. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. YK: Karate. That’s exercise, you know, karate. SM: Oh, yes. Right. Oh, you have that in your school, too. YK: Yes. Korean singing. SM: Singing, oh. YK: Yes, sing. Yes. Also Korean cooking, too, you know. SM: And cooking. YK: Yes, cooking. We have a cooking class for the American friends, you know. SM: Oh, I see. YK: Yes. SM: And you put a cookbook . . . started a cookbook. YK: Yes. Yes, we have that. SM: Yes. YK: We made . . . do you have it there? SM: Somebody gave . . . [unclear] gave me one. YK: Oh, [unclear] gave you that. Yes. SM: Yes, it’s a very good cookbook. YK: He’s a . . . yes. [Chuckles] SM: I think you could take that to some stores and sell it. YK: Yes, we sell it for the Korean Institute. 13

SM: Oh, yes. Yes. It’s a very nice, very nice book. YK: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. That’s a lot of work. YK: Yes. SM: To do that. Yes. I see. YK: And [unclear] you know, dedicated a lot of . . . lots of . . . dedicated. SM: Yes. So the teachers, are they paid or . . .? YK: Yes, pay these . . . seven dollars an hours. SM: I see. Yes. YK: Just a little money, for these three hours, four hours, you know. SM: Yes. YK: A week. SM: Right. I see. [Unclear]. YK: We work with nine teachers. SM: Yes. This started then in 1975. YK: Yes, 1975. March 1st. SM: Nine teachers. How many classes? YK: Oh . . . six classes. SM: Six classes. So do you arrange that by their age group or by how much Korean they know or . . .? [Chuckles] YK: Yes. [Chuckles] Just, you know, classificate, you know. SM: Yes. YK: The age group. 14

SM: By the age group. YK: Yes, by the age group. SM: Yes. What about the adopted children? Do they come to this? YK: Oh after, you know, six months. SM: Yes. YK: The beginning . . . and some people came to me and said why not make a class for them. SM: Yes. YK: They asked me. So . . . SM: Oh. YK: Okay. We’ll try. SM: Yes. YK: And after six months we, you know, made it. SM: I see. A special class just for them or did they go with the other children? YK: Yes. First time is a special, you know, class. SM: Yes. YK: And after one month we’re all put together, you know. [Chuckles] SM: I see. Yes. YK: They don’t want us to, you know, separate, you know, teaching them. SM: Oh, yes. They want to be with the other children. YK: Yes. So a lot of people have complained, well, why is it separated? SM: Yes. YK: [Chuckles] So okay, rest together, you know, [unclear]. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. Oh that’s . . . 15

YK: Mixed, mixed up then. SM: Yes. Well, some of the adopted children could speak Korean if they came when they were . .. YK: Yes, some of them did. That’s . . . you know, teachers had a lot of problems with that. SM: Oh, yes. YK: And some of them can understand in Korean. Some of them couldn’t understand the Korean. SM: Oh, yes. They were babies who came. YK: Yes. No, it was six and eight years and they couldn’t, you know, speak in Korean. SM: Yes. I mean, when they came to the United States they were babies. YK: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes, you know. SM: Yes. YK: [Unclear]. SM: I see. And their parents, are they pretty interested in this? YK: Yes, very interested. SM: Yes. Especially for the identity probably. YK: Yes. You know, some people say this, we adopted people with their culture, too, you know. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. YK: That’s the meaning, much mean . . . you know. SM: Yes. Well, that’s good. So what kind of numbers of children? How many . . .? YK: There are ninety-two first times. SM: Ninety-two. YK: Yes. 16

SM: First . . . the first year? YK: Yes, first year. SM: Yes. YK: The second year about eighty . . . a little bit is decreased. [Chuckles] SM: A little bit decreased. [Chuckles] Is that . . .? YK: Yes. Now it’s maybe . . . now, I guess, sixty, you know, students here. SM: I see. Yes. This is the third year? YK: No, it’s . . . SM: Oh no, this is the fourth year. YK: Fourth. Yes, fourth year. SM: Yes. Well, somebody, I think Mr. Lee at the [unclear], he said he thought adoptive parents were getting a little bit less interested. Is that true? YK: Yes, a little, they are getting, you know, less interested. SM: Just a little. YK: Because [unclear] you know. SM: Yes. YK: Yes, he told them . . . SM: Yes. YK: He has a lot of, you know, experience. SM: Oh, yes. YK: He has a lot of . . . she has a lot of experience. SM: Yes. Yes. YK: So many of the children’s parents are interested in it, but he quit now. 17

SM: Oh, because she’s quit now. YK: Yes. SM: Oh. I see. YK: Because he . . . SM: She has a baby. YK: Yes, she . . . yes, has a baby. SM: Yes. Right. Oh, so she interested the parents. YK: Yes. Yes, she was, you know, teaching good . . . you know, speaking. [Chuckles] SM: I see. YK: He’s very well. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. She speaks very well. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. Well, is somebody taking her place, somebody else? YK: Yes. SM: Yes. YK: Yes, somebody’s taking her place. SM: But not quite so good. YK: Mmmm, you know . . . SM: That’s hard to keep it . . . YK: Yes. SM: I see. YK: I don’t know exactly why they, you know, quit the class. SM: Yes. 18

YK: But I guess, you know, maybe a teachers problem. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. Right. I see. So maybe another year they’ll come back. [Chuckles] YK: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Right. YK: I hope so. SM: Is she planning to come back when her baby is older? YK: Oh, yes, they . . . We still, you know, send them, you know, letters and then we discuss with them, you know. SM: Yes, I see. YK: When we have a party then we invited them. SM: I see. YK: So we discuss, why you quit? You know. SM: [Chuckles] Oh, and what do they say? YK: They say, oh, maybe later, you know. SM: Yes. YK: Still they’re interested in the Korean community. SM: I see. Yes. So you really followed through on finding out why they quit or something. YK: Yes, we started . . . SM: I see. What about the other . . . the Korean families? Do they . . . most, do they send their kids? YK: A little bit is interested, you know. Yes, all these are getting, yes, getting interested. SM: [Chuckles] I see. YK: You know, one family, they came here. It’s a blue collar job the dad has, you know. 19

SM: Yes. YK: Uneducated people. He came here . . . SM: Oh, they were blue collar in Korea. YK: Yes. Their children . . . children, you know, learned English, speak in English. They couldn’t speak in Korean. SM: Yes. YK: So it’s very, you know, difficulty to discuss . . . SM: Oh, yes. YK: You know, with their parents. So their parents then came over here, came to me. I got a problem, my kids, you know, couldn’t speak in Korean. SM: Yes. YK: I can’t, you know, can’t speak in English, you know. SM: Yes. So that’s a big problem. YK: How we are . . . how conversation with them is, and here is problems. So why don’t you teach your, you know, kids in Korean. SM: Yes. YK: He says, I have to, and so he sent them to Korean Institute, you know. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: [Chuckles] SM: Good solution. YK: Oh, yes. There’s a lot of, you know, problems there. SM: I see. YK: They . . . especially in discipline. Discipline education, you know. SM: In the spring? 20

YK: Discipline. SM: Oh, discipline. Oh, yes. YK: Discipline. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. That is a problem. YK: Yes. SM: Do the Korean parents worry about that? YK: Yes. Yes. SM: What are some of the things the Korean parents worry about most in bringing up their children in the United States? YK: It’s . . . how is customs are very different from, you know, Koreans here. SM: Yes. YK: Most of the kids in Korea respect the old people. SM: Yes. YK: You know. SM: Yes. But here not. YK: Yes, and it’s . . . just a little free . . . SM: Yes. [Chuckles] YK: From the . . . [Chuckles] So that’s . . . SM: Right. Even some Americans are worried about this. [Chuckles] YK: Yes. Old people are respected, you know. SM: Yes. YK: Expect the child to respect him. SM: Sure. 21

YK: You know. My . . . even my, you know, mother here, she said this to us, why they say anything . . . you know. SM: Yes. Oh, your mother stays here, too? YK: Yes. There’s much worry about that. SM: Yes. Do they worry about drugs and that kind of thing, too? YK: Sure. Yes. And smoking. SM: Yes. YK: Most of the, you know, Korean parents, they don’t like smoking. SM: Oh, Koreans don’t smoke much? YK: No. SM: Well, what about the Korean Association itself? The Institute is a part of the Korean Association. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. And what kinds of things does the Korean Association do? YK: Well, we, you know, make a little more human relationships, you know, within each other. We understand each other. Even we . . . we don’t know, you know, Korean people, even, you know, who come here and say we don’t know any. Then so we discuss and okay we . . . a little bit talking with them. And okay, we understand them, you know. First we . . . a little bit is relationships; mostly [unclear]. SM: I see. YK: Understand each other. Next we have the right to [unclear] with another ethnic group. You know what I mean? SM: You have a right to . . . YK: Yes, we have to have . . . SM: Have the right to . . .

22

YK: Yes, right [unclear] with . . . you know, saying, you know we . . . this government is that . . . I will hope this government treats their, you know, equal . . . I mean equal opportunities, something like that. SM: I see. YK: Yes. SM: So do you have a legal defense and this kind of thing or no? YK: No. But so we . . . SM: No. But just to help people with their papers or . . . YK: Yes. SM: I see. You help with the immigration papers? YK: Yes, we help with lots. SM: Yes. YK: I have a lot of information, you know. SM: Oh, I see. YK: They ask me, you know, so I explain to the Korean . . . [Chuckles] SM: Yes. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. You don’t have Korean lawyers working with it or . . .? YK: No. SM: No. YK: No. SM: But you find out a little . . . YK: Yes. Yes, and most of the people are asking me why we, you know, appointed the lawyer, you know, for the Korean groups in the community. 23

SM: Oh, yes. YK: So we’re thinking about that. SM: Oh. YK: We have [unclear] meeting here, you know. SM: I see. YK: We need that . . . yes, we need that. SM: Yes. Yes. Are there some Korean lawyers in the Twin Cities? YK: No. SM: No, there aren’t any. YK: The other cities have them. SM: Oh, in the other cities. YK: So we need a lawyer that understand minority groups, you know, especially this Asian group. SM: Yes. YK: Their culture and their customs, you know. SM: Right. And understand the legal points, too. YK: Yes. SM: I see. So do you have meetings then where all the membership come together? YK: Sure. Every month. SM: Every month. YK: Yes. Once a month. SM: I see. And what do you do at the meetings? Do you talk about these things? YK: Talk about everything. How we explain my culture to the other ethnic groups, you know. 24

SM: To the other [unclear]. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. I see. YK: You know, like Festival of Nations. Do you know about Festival of Nations? Every year, you know. SM: Oh, passport? YK: Festival. SM: Oh, festival relations. Yes. YK: Yes, Festival of Nations. SM: Yes. Oh, the Festival of Nations, yes. Yes, I know. YK: Yes, we are attending there, and Aquatennial. SM: Oh, yes. In 1970 that was a big . . . Koreans did a big . . . YK: Yes. A big, you know. Last year we had a lot of big, you know . . . SM: Oh, did you last year, too? YK: Yes, I think . . . yes, I think then, too. SM: Oh. What did you do? A float or something or dances? YK: Yes, dance and singing. SM: Oh. YK: And making . . . or cooking, you know, Oriental food. SM: Yes. I see. That was in 1979? YK: Yes. We did. SM: Oh, I saw that your foods were in the Festival of Nations, too. YK: Yes. 25

SM: Yes. YK: The newspapers, you know, said that it is . . . Korean food very interesting and most of the people were saying that. SM: Yes. Yes. So part of your purpose is to explain Korean culture to the American people. YK: Sure. Yes. Yes. SM: I see. And it also is to provide a chance for the Koreans to get together and help each other? YK: Yes. We . . . yes, we have a Korean Day. SM: Oh, that’s sponsored by the Korean Association. YK: Yes. SM: I see. YK: We put together, we explain all year, you know, the business of Korean Association. SM: I see. What day is that, Korean Day? Is that in the summer? YK: October, the first Saturday. SM: Oh. YK: October in every . . . SM: The first Saturday. YK: First Saturday, yes. SM: I see. And so you’ve had several years now? YK: Yes, maybe . . . four, fourth year, you know, we had last year. SM: Oh. 1979 was the fourth year. YK: Yes. SM: So you started about 1975. YK: I guess so. 26

SM: I see. YK: Last we . . . Korean Day was almost . . . five hundred sixty people, you know. SM: Oh! That’s a lot of people. YK: We put together, you know. SM: Yes. YK: We invited a Korean singing group from New York. SM: Oh. I see. YK: An actress and actor. SM: Yes. That was this year? YK: Yes, this year. Yes. SM: I see. YK: In the Madison . . . SM: Medicine discussion? YK: Yes, Madison . . . no this . . . Madison . . . what is . . . SM: In New York? YK: No, not . . . right . . . what is that? Madison . . . SM: In the Twin Cities? YK: Yes, ballroom. SM: Oh. YK: Do you know this Madison Ballroom? SM: I’m not too sure but I can find out. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] SM: Oh, so you held that in the Madison Ballroom. 27

YK: Yes, Madison Ballroom. SM: And then during the day did you have races, a picnic, those kinds of things? YK: Yes. We have a lot of these . . . play ball, you know a baseball game. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: Over two hundred people came over there, you know. SM: Oh. YK: To play a ball game in Saint Paul . . . SM: Saint Paul campus? YK: The university, you know. Yes, campus. SM: Oh, yes. Two hundred people were watching or playing? YK: Watching some, yes, playing. SM: Yes. YK: We have three churches here, Korean churches here. SM: Oh, yes. YK: No, no. Seven churches. SM: Seven. YK: Yes, seven churches. SM: Yes. Well, they also serve a purpose of social needs, right? YK: Yes. Yes. SM: Yes. But do you overlap any with them? YK: Yes, all they overlap, you know. SM: Yes. I see. 28

YK: We have an elderly association, some . . . what can I say it is a . . .? SM: Yes. An elderly club or something? YK: Yes, something. Yes, elderly club, you know. SM: Yes. YK: We support them. SM: You support them. YK: Yes, support them. SM: I see. I see. So the Korean Association is over all the other [unclear]. YK: Yes. Oh, yes. SM: Yes. And then it has special projects it works on. YK: Yes. SM: What other kinds of clubs are there? YK: Mmmm, we have the young, young’s club. SM: Young people’s club? YK: Yes, young, young people, just a . . . junior high, senior high, and university, you know. SM: Oh. Oh, so I was wondering if there was a student organization at the university, but maybe it’s this. YK: Yes. And that’s different from, you know, different. SM: You’ve got two different, oh, I see. This is called a young people’s club. YK: Yes. We call it a young . . . This is an invitation to me . . . this one, you know. [Rustling paper noise] They have a party in there. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, I see. YK: Can you understand? SM: Oh, at Weyerhaeuser Chapel, that’s at Macalester. 29

YK: Yes. What date is December 29th, you know, Saturday. Seven p.m. SM: Oh, I see. And so they invite . . . YK: So I’m speaking there, and they asked me to speak. SM: Yes. I see. YK: Speaking on Korea, you know. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. At the young people’s club. YK: Yes. What is your duty in the Association, you know. SM: Oh. YK: They’re asking me. Subject is what’s . . . what we do. I mean, the young people, do in the Korean Association . . . no, I mean the Korean community, you know. SM: Oh. YK: And also American society. SM: Oh. What will you say? [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] I . . . I don’t have . . . you know, I’m speaking though. SM: What is their duty? And like for both societies, in Korean and . . . YK: They should understand . . . first, you know, they should understand . . . people who couldn’t adapt, adjust in this society. SM: Oh. YK: You know what I mean? The blue collar jobs. SM: Oh, yes. YK: And then, you know, older men, older aged men, you know. SM: Yes. I see. YK: So we . . . I argue and . . . adjust . . . 30

SM: Argue? YK: Yes, this and . . . you know, I adjusted. I adjusted. Then understanding Korean culture. SM: I see. YK: Especially, you know, morally, you know. Moral. SM: Moral? YK: Yes. SM: Korean culture is very strong on moral values. YK: Yes. It isn’t too . . . too, you know, strong, but . . . SM: [Chuckles] YK: Somehow we take this and we . . . SM: I see. And what else will you say? YK: Oh, yes. Maybe then I’ll say essentially why we live . . . what, you know, what purpose to live, you know, here. First when we . . . SM: I see. Do all of them understand Korean? YK: I guess so. SM: Yes. YK: If they don’t understand in Korean, then they don’t . . . SM: They don’t come. [Chuckles] YK: No, they don’t come. Usually, you know. SM: Sure. Well, how does this fit in with this . . . the Korean Student Association at the university? That’s a different . . .? YK: Different from . . . yes. SM: But somebody told me that’s not very active. YK: No, I don’t think so. 31

SM: Because there are other student organizations. YK: This one is very active, you know. SM: Yes. This is very active. YK: Active group, yes. SM: I see. YK: [Unclear] student association . . . SM: Yes. YK: Consists of graduate . . . you know. SM: Oh, it’s the older students. YK: Older, yes. Older students. SM: Oh, I see. YK: Maybe over thirty years old, you know. SM: Oh, I see. And are they more from Korea? YK: Yes. SM: Rather than Korean American. YK: Yes. There’s more, you know, Koreans. They, yes, they come from, you know, Korea. SM: I see. So they’re busy with their studying. YK: Yes. Also they are thirty years old, you know, over thirty years old, most of them. SM: Oh, yes. I see. So that’s . . . that’s an old organization though, isn’t it? YK: Yes. SM: Doesn’t that go back to . . .? YK: Yes. Korean, yes, Student Association is an old one, you know. [Chuckles] 32

SM: Yes, from the 1950s or something. YK: Yes. Yes, a long time ago. SM: Yes. Is that when the Korean Association started, too, in the 1950s? YK: I guess so. SM: Yes. I see. YK: You know, Dr. Sung? SM: Yes. YK: Yes, he’s a doctor, you know. Medical doctor, you know. So he teaches . . . SM: He was one of the first . . . YK: Yes. He organized that Korean Association. SM: I see. Oh, he organized it? YK: Yes. Dr. Sung. SM: I see. YK: We have a Song, Sung, two of . . . two of them. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. But he’s Song and then Sung is the economist, is that right? YK: No. SM: Oh, no. Sohn. [They are referring to Dr. Sung Won Sohn.] YK: Yes, that’s a Sohn. SM: Sohn. YK: Yes, that Sohn is an economist. SM: Oh, yes. YK: Dr. Song. SM: Oh, who is he then? 33

YK: He’s a professor, yes, also he’s working with Dr. Sung. [Chuckles] SM: Oh! [Chuckles] They’re both at the medical school? YK: Yes. SM: Oh. Is he . . .? YK: So some studies, Dr. Song is all . . . which Song is it? SM: Oh. YK: Oh, Song, Sung, I don’t know which one they . . . [Chuckles] SM: [Laughter] Well, they’re both in the medical school then. YK: Yes. SM: Were they both the early settlers? YK: Yes. SM: Oh! YK: [Chuckles] SM: I talked to Dr. Sung. Just . . . YK: What song? Is it S-U-N-G? SM: U, S-U. YK: S-U-N-G. SM: Yes. He’s a pathologist. YK: He’s . . . yes. All these . . . you know, all these men. SM: Oh, he’s the earliest one. YK: Yes, earliest one. SM: He’s earlier than Song? 34

YK: Yes. S-O-N-G. SM: I see. And just this morning I talked to Sohn, the economist. YK: Oh, economist. Yes. SM: Yes. That was him. YK: Yes. SM: He said he doesn’t have too much connection with these, because he married an American. YK: No. Just a little . . . little, you know. SM: Yes. He said it’s too hard for his wife to understand. [Chuckles] YK: Yes. Because, you know . . . Yes. Right. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] Let’s see. So now you work at the Crown Meat Company. Oh, I guess I started over here. YK: Yes. SM: But you would like to maybe sometime do some teaching or . . .? YK: Yes, I’d like to, you know, yes, looking for the other job, because, you know . . . SM: Do you get paid for being head of the Korean Institute then? YK: Oh, yes. A little. SM: Oh. YK: A little bit. Just is transportation fees and something like that. SM: Yes, so just a token . . . YK: Yes. One hundred fifty dollars a month, you know. SM: Oh, yes. YK: It’s that [unclear]. SM: So it’s not too much. 35

YK: [Chuckles] SM: Pays for your gas. YK: Sometimes it’s, you know, a lot of, you know, famous men . . . I mean, important men from Korea, they come over here, they are, you know. SM: Oh, they come to the Institute to talk or something? YK: No, to the . . . SM: Korean Association? YK: Yes, visiting this, you know, university and this country, this state. SM: Yes. I see. YK: So I help them, you know. SM: Oh, I see. Yes. YK: So I need the money sometimes as we buy . . . I bought lunch for them. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. YK: Sometimes, you know. SM: I see. And that [unclear]. YK: Yes. SM: I see. YK: When I came here about three hundred people, Korean people here. When I came here, you know. SM: Only three hundred? YK: Yes, about three hundred. SM: In 1970? YK: Most of them . . . 1972. SM: 1972. 36

YK: In 1973 about. 1973. Most of them, ninety percent of these are students or professional jobs. SM: I see. YK: And in 1975 we increased, almost nine hundred people then. SM: Oh. From three hundred to nine hundred? YK: Yes, to nine. SM: Oh. YK: In 1975, you know. SM: I see, just in that one year. YK: Yes, one year . . . almost two years, about two years. SM: Oh, from 1972 to . . . YK: 1973. 1973. SM: Oh, from 1973. YK: To 1975. SM: Yes. Oh, so . . . YK: Now it’s at three thousand people here. SM: That’s very quick. YK: Yes. SM: I see. Is there something that draws Koreans to Minnesota? Do they think this is a good place to come? YK: Maybe it’s . . . they have, you know, relatives here. SM: Relatives. YK: Yes, relatives. They have, you know, most of them have relatives. SM: I see. Did you have any relatives when you came here? Or you had friends? 37

YK: I have friends. SM: Yes. YK: He’s a doctor, you know. He says, “Why don’t you come over here?” You know, and live with them. SM: Yes. Do you think you made the right decision? YK: My . . . my close friend, you know, here. So I came here. SM: Yes. I see. Are they from the same area as you are from or did he live in Seoul? YK: Yes, he . . . he finished, you know, doctor . . . he went back to Korea. SM: Oh, he was studying here? YK: He went . . . yes, he went back to Korea. Now he’s a professor. SM: I see. So now he’s not here. YK: No. SM: What percent go back? Do you know? YK: That’s a . . . maybe . . . a little . . . SM: Or has that changed any? YK: You know, quite a few, you know. SM: Quite a few. YK: Yes, quite a few. SM: About half of the students? YK: Oh . . . I guess so. Well, less than, you know, half. SM: Less than half. YK: Less than half. SM: Has that gotten harder to stay now? Harder to change the student visa to [unclear]? 38

YK: Very hard to, you know, change, yes, student visa. SM: It’s gotten much harder. What year did that get harder? YK: Maybe 1976, you know. SM: Oh. YK: After 1976 it was really . . . got harder. SM: I see. Oh, then why was that? Did they change the immigration law? YK: Mmmm. I guess so. I guess so. SM: I see. Does the Korean Association do some of the same things the churches do? YK: No. No. [Unclear] people. SM: They don’t do the same things. The church is more a very close like a family? YK: Yes. Most of, you know, the churches . . . maybe a hundred people, you know. Each church, you know. SM: I see. So it’s a smaller group. YK: Very close. Yes, very close. SM: I see. YK: They don’t have any chance to put together, you know, deal with them, with the other, you know, church groups. SM: Yes. YK: So Korean Association is something like . . . like . . . what can I say? It’s a . . . SM: Like an umbrella organization? YK: Yes, it’s a . . . they invited all of it making it . . . SM: I see. YK: We make a chance you know to understand each of them. 39

SM: I see. YK: By playing games, by parties, like Korean Days, all of them, you know, come over here and we put it together and then each, you know, talking with each other. SM: Yes. YK: And they understand it. SM: I see. YK: Like a choir group, you know. We’re unique . . . [unite] . . . SM: Unique. YK: Yes, unique, the choir group. Your church choir, you know, singing group comes over here, your singing comes over here, your singing come over here, and then we make some big . . . SM: Oh, your choir is from different churches? YK: Yes, we make . . . yes. I didn’t though. [Chuckles] Just a couple times. SM: Oh, well the Korean Association. YK: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Oh. YK: Those the days I practice some and they show them the Korean people all over you know Korean people come together and then they . . . SM: To hear a concert, is it? YK: Yes, all of them singing in like a concert, you know. SM: Oh, I see. YK: What can I say . . . it’s a choir concert. SM: Yes. YK: And the churches, you know, sing. Singing groups. SM: Yes. Well . . . 40

YK: I did that three times. SM: Oh, you did that three times? YK: Yes. SM: Oh, that was a good idea. The church I went to one day in Oakdale . . . YK: Oh, Oakdale. SM: Yes. YK: That’s my church, you know. SM: Oh, is that your church? YK: [Chuckles] Yes. SM: Oh. I didn’t know you then, I guess. YK: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: But that choir seemed quite nice. YK: Yes. SM: And everybody says though that Korean choirs are very beautiful singing. YK: Yes. SM: Why is that? [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] That’s good. And my wife is a member of the choir. SM: Is she? YK: Yes. SM: Oh. So you go to the Oakdale church. YK: Yes. SM: I see. YK: That’s the only church by . . . owned by a Korean, you know, group. 41

SM: Yes. Yes. YK: That’s the only one. SM: Right. But Oriental . . . YK: Most of your churches are renting or leased, the other churches, you know. SM: Yes. I thought that was a very interesting church. And they have more of the [unclear] too, don’t they, than the other churches? YK: Oakdale is most of the, you know, blue collar. Most of them. SM: Has most of them? YK: Most of them. SM: Why is that? Do they feel more welcome there or . . .? YK: Oh, it’s . . . you mean . . .? SM: The blue collar. They go to Oakdale because they feel . . .? YK: Oakdale is easy you know to adapt you know accept . . . put together, you know. Put together easier. SM: I see. YK: You know, professional job is they are not . . . discussing different subjects from the other, you know, blue collar jobs. SM: I see. YK: You know what I mean? SM: Yes. But some of the professionals go there, too, or . . .? YK: Some of them, is most professional jobs is in Korean Community Church. SM: Oh, I see. YK: Dr. Sohn, Dr. Sung belong to that church. SM: I see. Dr. Sung and Song. 42

YK: [Chuckles] Yes. Sung and Song. Sohn, too. Ko Daughter: Daddy! YK: Mmmm? Ko Daughter: What place is that again? YK: Ah, Metropolitan Medical Center. SM: I see. And so . . . YK: Dr. Sung belongs to there, Dr. Song, Sohn, too. Most of the doctors, you know, medical doctors are over, you know, go to that church. SM: Oh, most of the doctors go there. YK: Yes. [Recording interruption] SM: ...conversations. You were going to say something about that church, I think, when I interrupted. That Oakdale church. YK: Yes. SM: You organized at that church? YK: Yes, I organized at that church. SM: I see. SK: Very first time. SM: Oh. SK: He really tried to . . . develop. SM: I see. YK: At that time, you see, we don’t have any . . . SK: Methodist church. We didn’t have . . . 43

SM: Oh, that was the First Methodist one. SK: Yes. YK: Yes, First Methodist. SM: I see. And did you belong to the Methodist church in Korea then? YK: No. SM: Oh. SK: Just a Christian. SM: Christian, yes. YK: Yes. SM: That’s one thing that interests me. They start out as nondenominational and then they become . . . YK: Yes, at first, at the time it was a nondenominational church, you know, in there. SM: Yes. YK: So we needed some denominational church, you know, so we organized at that church. SM: Well, why did you need the denomination? YK: Nondenominational churches, you know, some . . . we know . . . we don’t understand, you know, some things. SM: Oh, I see. YK: You see, now. [Unclear] has any idea then that’s some . . . like God says . . . saying something, you know. SM: Oh, I see. SK: Like a person, that decision you know. SM: Oh, sure. SK: Not part of the Gospel. 44

YK: The Bible. SM: So you belong to a larger organization that way. YK: Yes. So we are . . . SM: Yes. YK: That’s my idea. So we . . . I asked some Korean people, we have to have a denominational church, you know. SM: Yes. YK: They said they agree with that. [Chuckles] SM: I see. So that’s the trend now to become attached to a larger. YK: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. SK: So exactly he . . . YK: Like Sun Myung Moon, you know. Do you know who Reverend Moon is? SM: Oh, yes. YK: I don’t understand his policy, you know. SM: Yes. YK: His principle. SM: Yes. YK: Why he said is that he is . . . I’m God, you know, he said that. SM: [Chuckles] YK: And so we don’t know . . . we don’t believe that. SM: I see. I see. Well, also then . . . then the church becomes part of the American society a little more, too, than with this . . . YK: Sure. Yes. More understanding in American society. 45

SM: Yes. It’s connected with the American churches. YK: Yes. Yes. SM: Is that church connected with any American churches? YK: Yes. SM: I mean, do you exchange . . .? YK: The United Methodist Church, you know, keep with that church and, you know. SM: Yes. That’s the larger one. YK: Yes. SM: But any . . . YK: Bishop has come to my house, he says, okay we make some . . . [Chuckles] SM: I see. Oh, the bishop came to your house. Yes. Well, one thing I’m interested in, too, is the women’s organization there. What is that called? The Women’s Association or . . .? SK: For the Korean Association? SM: Oh, no, for the church. YK: No, no in the church. Different group. SK: Oh, for the church. Oh, how you can you call . . .? YK: Mmmm, just a women’s service association, something like that. That’s, you know, they . . . SM: Oh. Yes. SK: How do call it at the Methodist church for the women’s group? SM: Well, that’s what somebody asked me, too. I should find out. Some churches call it circle. SK: Oh, I see. SM: But I don’t know if Methodists do. 46

SK: We have specific Korean word, but . . . SM: Oh, you have a Korean term for it. SK: Yes. SM: Oh. SK: Or same words, I think, at the Methodist. But I don’t know how can I transfer to the American. SM: I see. YK: Just a women’s association. SM: But the women’s service organization. SM: Women’s organization. YK: Organization. Service, you know, organization. SM: Service organization. I see. Unknown person: Mom! SK: Hmmm? Unknown person: She used the hot water. SK: Oh, make her too. SM: And what is your main purpose in that? Is that to get together or to do some projects for churches in Korea or . . .? YK: [Unclear]. SK: Oh, they do like different things. They found some people need help. SM: Oh, here in the community [unclear]. SK: Yes, [unclear] church organization. YK: Raising the money.

47

SK: Church organization. And, you know, kind of the same thing but raising the money and put the poor people, you know. SM: Oh, yes. For people, new immigrants? SK: Yes. We just invite them. SM: I see. SK: And sometimes bring . . . YK: Like tonight, you know, we go to the medical . . . Metropolitan Medical Center. SK: Who has the [unclear] children. YK: Yes, [unclear]. Yes. SM: I see. Oh. SK: We’re going to visit them tonight. YK: Yes, them and give them some . . . SM: Oh, you’re going to see the children that are patients. SK: Yes. YK: Yes. SM: Oh. Is that a project of the women’s association or everybody? YK: It’s a project of . . . one of the projects of this Korean Association. SM: Oh, it’s a project . . . YK: With our church, you know. SK: With . . . SM: And of the church, too. YK: Yes. Yes, we joined . . . joined together. SK: Korean Association and the church group, they just joined together. 48

SM: Oh. I see. Just that church, just the Methodist church. YK: Yes. SK: Yes. SM: Oh, so they two went together to help the patients in the hospital. SK: Yes. YK: Yes, I asked my church, see, to help me. SM: Oh, I see. That’s [unclear]. YK: I go there [chuckles] so they said okay. SM: I see. YK: So then, you know. But don’t ask me where we go, you know. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, that’s what she was asking. Well, are those mainly children in the hospital or . . .? SK: Yes. Most of them children. SM: Korean children. SK: Yes. YK: Yes. Every . . . you know, Korean children. SM: I see. YK: They have heart trouble. Heart trouble. SM: I see. So they stay here several months then. YK: Several months and then change, you know. SM: I see. YK: Switch. Switch, you know. SM: Does their mother come or someone come over? YK: It’s a nurse. 49

SK: No, just a nurse comes with. YK: Two nurses, you know, come and take care of them. SM: Oh. So that must be very nice for them to have some families come to see them. Are they small children? YK: Oh . . . SK: Small to nineteen. SM: Oh. YK: Yes, six to here is twenty-four. SM: Six to twenty-four. Oh, so all ages. YK: Yes, all ages. SM: I see. Well, that’s very nice that your church and association . . . SK: He has been working on it for how many years? Almost eight years for all Korean Association. SM: Oh. Yes. SK: And church and Korean Association for the school and everything. SM: Yes. It sounds like he’s really done a lot of work for the community. SK: Yes. YK: [Unclear] then all the [unclear] say why don’t you help? Help. SM: [Chuckles] SK: So exactly we don’t have much [unclear] our family. You know. SM: Yes. SK: Time. SM: Right. 50

SK: Just has to spend the time all the time for on the people and outside. [Chuckles] SM: Yes, so he works all day, too. Yes. YK: Yes, I feel guilty to my wife, you know. SK: [Chuckles] SM: Well, it’s a hard decision to know what to do, I guess. YK: [Chuckles] SK: But he likes it to do so nobody can stop it. SM: [Chuckles] Right. Well, one thing I’ve noticed in the Korean community is that everybody is helping each other. YK: Sure. Yes. SM: And especially in the churches but I wondered if that’s a Christian idea or a Korean idea or both? [Chuckles] You know, is that tradition in Korea to help each other even if you aren’t part of a church? YK: Yes. Sure. Yes. SK: All together, I think. Yes. SM: I see. So it’s both the Christian and the Korean tradition. SK: Both together. Yes. SM: Oh, so that makes it’s very strong then. SK: Yes. And they have a soul, strong mind. SM: A strong mind? SK: Everybody, each person’s soul is strong, you know, in their old . . . SM: The Korean people. SK: Yes. YK: Sure. 51

SM: Yes. I see. Is that the way they’re brought up or . . .? SK: I think so. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] Were your children really small when you came here? SK: Yes, when I was here . . . last one was three years old. SM: Oh, the youngest was three years old. SK: Yes, youngest. SM: I see. Well, I was asking your husband whether there are some problems in bringing up children here in America for Koreans. SK: I brought him and he was here already when he was studying. SM: Yes. YK: Yes. She . . . SK: And so I brought him so I had a really hard time. That was the first . . . first hardest things for my life, you know. YK: [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. When you came to [unclear]? SK: Yes. YK: With the children. SM: Oh, with the children. SK: Yes, with three children. It was very hard. SM: Oh, you mean the trip was very hard. SK: Trip and everything. SM: And everything. SK: Everything, yes. SM: Yes, that would be really difficult. Did you know English then though? 52

SK: We learned at the school but not . . . YK: At the time they didn’t know, you know, English and so she was nervous. SM: Oh, yes. That’s really hard. SK: Well, not the communication. YK: Yes, just speaking. Speaking . . . SK: We can read and writing but not the communication. SM: Oh. Yes. So that’s really hard. SK: Yes. Very hard at that time. SM: Well, I suppose your children are very aware of their Korean heritage since you started the Korean Institute and so on. YK: [Chuckles] SK: [Chuckles] SM: But is that a problem for some families, if they just become too American, the children, and they don’t think about their Korean background, too? Or are the parents worried about that? YK: Mmmm, no. I don’t think so. SM: Not so much. YK: No. They . . . most of the parents, you know, want their kids to have an identity. SM: Sure. YK: Yes. SM: A Korean identity? YK: Yes, some . . . yes, identity. We have different problems [unclear] difference from [unclear] some feeling. SM: Yes.

53

YK: So Dr. Sung’s [unclear] you know told us, said, “I’m really good, you know, good in achievement in school.” SM: Yes. YK: “I’m doing good in school. Why don’t . . . why don’t I have, you know, have a boyfriend?” She said that. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: “Well, what’s different from the other American girls?” You know. SM: How old is she then? YK: She’s sixteen . . . I guess so. SM: Yes. And that was Song or Sung. YK: Song. S-O-N-G, you know. SM: Song, okay. YK: That’s . . . she told me, “Why am I different from, you know, the other American, you know, girls.” SM: Yes. YK: And so they wonder. SM: Oh, that’s very interesting. YK: “I’m doing everything well. But different. I don’t have any boyfriend,” she said. [Chuckles] She said it, she said that. SM: To him. YK: And so he’s mad, you know, some upset then, hearing that. So what shall we do? SM: Yes. YK: For the kids. SM: Oh. YK: So we should give them some identity. 54

SM: Yes. YK: You are Korean. You were a Korean, now are American, you know. But these are . . . you were a Korean, you have some culture, you have some, you know, doings different from the other ethnic groups. SM: Yes. I see. Well . . . YK: I don’t want to tell them, you know, this college didn’t . . . some, you know, disappointment, you know. SM: Yes. Right. It’s a difficult problem. YK: Yes, really. SM: And their identity is probably a little bit different from their parents because they’re partly American, partly Korean. YK: Yes. Sometimes, you know, my daughter is asking me, “Can I go to my friend’s to stay over?” SM: Yes. YK: You know, it’s a Friday night. SM: Sure. YK: And so, no. I said no. “Why, why?” The other parent, she said, they give the okay. “Well, why can’t I go over there?” SM: Yes. YK: That’s my policy. You know, a special policy, you know. [Chuckles] Family policy. SM: Yes. YK: So you obey me, you know. She says, “Why?” She said then. So in Korea they don’t like this [unclear] you know, sleep over, you know, outside. SM: I see. YK: Because I’m the responsibility. I have the responsibility for you. SM: Yes. I see. 55

YK: You know. Growing [unclear] you know, something like that. So you . . . I said that. SM: I see. YK: [Unclear]. Understand. I don’t understand that. [Unclear] sometimes they might argue with me, [unclear] me. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. YK: So that’s my policy. Come over here, we are some . . . not, you know, families [unclear]. So we are a big family, you know. SM: Yes. YK: Your relationship to father and sometimes grandmother, you know, [unclear] like that. SM: Oh, the extended family. YK: Yes. I mean . . . SM: The uncles, grandfather . . . YK: Yes. SM: I see. Well, that’s pretty interesting. YK: Yes. SM: What did Dr. Song tell his daughter to do? The same thing? YK: So [unclear] he said that and she said [unclear] we don’t need any identity, you know. At maybe earlier time. SM: Oh, at earlier Dr. Song said. YK: Yes, Dr. Song [unclear] we don’t need any identity. So he taught her, his daughter, speak in English only. SM: Oh. YK: They said it, he said that. SM: Oh. So she doesn’t know Korean. Or maybe now she does. 56

YK: No. No. SM: Oh. YK: So now he said we should . . . we should let them understand Korean, something like that. He sent her to school. [Chuckles] SM: I see. Yes. YK: So [unclear] you know a lot of my friends, you know, like like him, like her, you know. SM: Yes. YK: In the Twin Cities area. So [unclear] they all get [unclear] a little bit . . . SM: Upset? YK: Not upset, you know, just a little quiet or peaceful mind. SM: Oh. I see. Well, what about Koreans who live in the little towns way off in Northern Minnesota somewhere. They can’t send their children to be in school. YK: Yes, no. No, there’s most of these that . . . But they come to . . . SM: But sometimes they do come. YK: . . . church, you know, that’s put together. SM: Oh. I see. I talked to some in Morris, Minnesota, way up north. [Chuckles] YK: Oh, yes. SM: And they both were university teachers. But a very isolated town. It would be too far to come to here for school or church or anything. YK: I guess it would . . . SM: But they seem to just take part in the local church, I guess. [Chuckles] YK: [Unclear] Yes. They think they need some Americanized . . . you know, Americanized [unclear]. SM: Well, that will happen no matter what. [Chuckles] But it takes more work to preserve the Korean culture. [Unclear]. 57

[Loud clunky noises] SK: Did you hear about the Korean ginseng tea? SM: Yes, I like it very much. YK: [Chuckles] SK: I didn’t know if you will like it. SM: Oh, I do. I’ve tasted it before. [Loud clunky noises] YK: Oh, excuse me. SM: Very nice [unclear]. SK: Thank you. SM: Do you work, too [unclear]? SK: Yes. SM: Oh, do most of the Korean wives work? YK: We need this money. [Chuckles] SM: Right. It’s a problem. [Chuckles] Where do you work, Kim? YK: Saint Anthony . . . SK: Hair Center. YK: Hair Center. [Loud clunky noises] SM: Saint Anthony . . . SK: Hair Center. SM: Care Center? SK: Hairs. 58

SK: Is that in Saint Paul then? YK: Saint Anthony. SK: [Unclear]. SM: Oh, in Saint Anthony. SK: Yes. SM: I see. Are there other Koreans or Asians that live in this area here? YK: Yes. SK: From three houses away. YK: More than three houses, you know. Just . . . SM: I saw one box said [unclear]. Is that Korean? YK: Yes. Yes. Yes. SM: Oh, yes. YK: It is. He’s a conductor of the choir, you know, the church choir. SM: Oh, at the Oakdale church? YK: No, there’s a Baptist . . . SM: At the Baptist. YK: Yes, I think the Baptist. SK: No, not the Baptist. YK: Presbyterians. SM: Presbyterians. YK: Yes, Presbyterians. SM: Oh. That’s a pretty new church, isn’t it? The Presbyterian. 59

SK: Yes. YK: Yes, in Golden Valley. SM: Oh, yes. Somebody told me about a Seventh Day Adventist church but I haven’t met anybody . . . YK: Yes, they established that, you know, a couple . . . SM: It just started. YK: Yes, just started. SM: Oh. YK: A couple months ago. SM: I see. Who was . . .? YK: I heard about there is maybe forty people, you know. SM: Just a very small . . . YK: Yes [unclear] there. SM: Do you the name of the minister there? YK: The minister . . . no. SM: You don’t know. YK: No. You need it [unclear] can ask him some. SM: Oh, okay. I thought I should contact all the ministers here, and the different churches. YK: Yes. You better to . . . [Chuckles] SM: Yes. [Chuckles] Right. YK: Yes, better to understand this Korean society. SM: Yes. Yes. I think I’ve talked to most of them now. SK: Did you? 60

SM: Oh, this is delicious! SK: [Chuckles] SM: I talked to Reverend Kim. YK: Yes. SM: Reverend Baik. YK: Yes. SM: And Reverend Lee at the Baptist church. YK: Yes, Baptist. SM: And then . . . YK: Reverend Yu. SM: Yes, and Reverend Yu. YK: Yes, Presbyterians. SM: And Father [unclear]. YK: Yes, Father [unclear]. SM: Right. But I haven’t talked to anyone at the Community church yet. I guess they’re just waiting for me. YK: Mmmm. SM: The minister to call. YK: Maybe, yes, [unclear]. SM: But I think there’s someone at Saint Olaf that preaches sometimes. They alternate, he said. Professor [unclear]. He teaches comparative religion. YK: Yes, [unclear]. Yes, [unclear]. SM: Oh, yes. YK: Yes, he teaches at those Carleton College, you know. 61

SM: Oh, I thought it was Saint Olaf. You think it’s . . .? YK: Carleton College, yes, it is. SM: Oh. Maybe he teaches both. I wonder. YK: Mmmm. He’s a . . . comparative religions. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. Hmmm. Well, if you can find out who is the minister of the Seventh Day Adventist, I would appreciate finding out who he is. YK: Okay. Yes. I’ll call. SM: Mmmm. Well, Reverend Baik’s church is very small, too. YK: Yes. SM: He used to be at Community Church, right? Until that split off. YK: Yes. That his church is at Macalester College, you know, by the Macalester College. SM: Oh. Oh, that’s where the Baptist church is. YK: Yes, Baptist church. SM: I see. YK: Hennepin Church is . . . SM: I think that’s at Hennepin Avenue. YK: Yes, Hennepin Avenue. SM: That’s for more of the professionals, is that right? YK: Yes. Yes. That is the professional group there. SM: [Talking about the tea] Mmmm, this is so good. Are some of the churches mixed between professional and blue collar? Like the Catholic church or . . .? YK: Yes, maybe Presbyterian church is, you know, mixed. SM: Oh, that’s mixed. 62

YK: It’s professional and blue collar. SM: I see. What about the Catholic church, which is that? YK: That is a small group, you know. SM: Oh, is it very small? YK: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. YK: That is professional and a little blue collar. SM: Oh. Yes. Oh, I see. Do your children take part in the activities at the church, too? SK: Yes. SM: They have young people’s classes? SK: Yes, young class. SM: Yes. It seemed like a very nice congregation. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] Yes. SM: I talked to Mrs. [unclear]. Is she the women’s . . .? SK: Yes. YK: Oh, yes. Yes, the chairmen of the women’s association. We’ve been to Korea, you know, a couple times and we came back a couple, yes, weeks ago. SM: Oh, did you? YK: Two or one. SM: Oh, what do you . . .? YK: One and a half weeks since that one. SM: Oh, you just came back. SK: We just came back. 63

YK: Yes, just came back, yes. SM: Oh, one and a half weeks ago. YK: Yes. SK: Well, exactly Korean government invited him. SM: Oh. YK: Because I devoted, you know, the Korean Association, Korean Institute, they, you know . . . [Chuckles] SM: Oh. SK: So they . . . YK: It was the first time, you know. SM: Oh. YK: Government invited people from the United States, you know. SM: Oh, that’s interesting. SK: So he visited all of the Korean membership and everybody and . . . SM: Oh. SK: Just we came back. I just followed him. SM: Oh, you went, too. Yes. YK: Yes. SM: Oh. Well, that’s interesting. SK: Yes. SM: They’re interested then in the immigrant community here. YK: Yes. SK: Yes, we took . . . they took the pictures and they made the album for us. 64

SM: Oh. Oh, that’s nice. SK: Yes. SM: So did you have a chance to see your relatives, too, then? SK: Yes. YK: Yes. Her mother, her brother, you know. SM: Oh. Well, that’s nice. Do you go back very often? Have you been back a few times? YK: Yes, a couple. Twice, you know. SM: Oh. Twice counting this one, one other time? SK: Yes, we went in the summertime. YK: The other time. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: [Unclear]. SM: I see. YK: Have you been to Korea? SM: No. YK: I hope you . . . SM: But I grew up in China. YK: Oh. SM: So I hope to go back sometime and visit Korea. YK: Yes. How about Japan? SM: I’ve just stopped at Japan on the ship, you know, about one or two days. [Chuckles] But I lived in China until I was about eighteen, which was a long time ago. [Chuckles] YK: Eighteen. 65

SM: Eighteen years old. YK: Eighteen years old. Long time. SM: Yes, I went when I was a little baby. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] SM: But my sisters were all born there. YK: Mmmm. SK: Oh. SM: I would like to go back. YK: I hope so. SM: But I’ve never been to Korea. SK: [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] SM: But I would like to. I hear it’s very beautiful. YK: Very beautiful country, I guess, you know. But developed, you know. SM: Yes. SK: Now it’s so crowded. So many people. SM: Is it really crowded? YK: Crowded. SK: Yes, it’s very crowded but naturally . . . naturally very pretty country. YK: Crowded with the kind of people, you know, not smart people. [Chuckles] I guess so. It’s different, you know. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: I live here seven years and I come to, you know, go back to Korea and very . . . 66

SM: Oh, it’s getting more crowded. Oh. Why is that? YK: Eight million people in Seoul. SM: Oh, that’s a lot. YK: And Minnesota is five million, population is . . . SM: Not quite five million. [Chuckles] Four million eight thousand, something like that. YK: There’s four million in [unclear] yes. SM: Oh, in the whole state. YK: Except eight million in old. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. That’s a lot. But Minnesota has a really low population. YK: Yes. SK: But Korea is . . . there’s problems so many population, you know. Too many people, too small a country. SM: Do you think there’s some hope of uniting the North and South? YK: We hope so, you know. SK: Hope so. YK: I guess it’s possible to, you know, get them together. SM: You think it’s impossible? YK: No. SM: Oh, you don’t think it’s impossible. YK: No. SM: Well, I certainly have learned a lot from you. [Chuckles] YK: Yes. SM: Is there anything else you would like to say about the Korean community or what about the women in the community? Do they take any leadership in the Korean Association or . . .? 67

YK: Mmmm. No, not yet. SM: Not yet. YK: But . . . SM: But in the church they do. SK: Usually, who . . . a woman works like . . . we have Korean Association and every other two years and they vote president of the Korean Association. SM: Oh, there’s a Korean womens’ association? SK: No, no, no. President of Korean Association. SM: Oh. SK: Then who is the wife . . . SM: Oh, I see. SK: You know, president’s wife. YK: Yes, that’s important. [Chuckles] SM: I see. She gets voted in, too. YK: Yes. Yes. [Laughter] SK: And she . . . she’s involved with everything. SM: Oh . . . YK: And you said . . . you got it. [Laughter] SK: Like it depends on who, you know. You know, voted the president. YK: Yes, people, you know, they make a decision who . . . you know, both people. SM: Yes. YK: That they’re thinking about his wife. His wife . . . and how many . . . SM: Oh, so that [unclear]. 68

SK: Who can . . . who can manage it. YK: Yes, can get votes to the Korean community. [Chuckles] SM: Oh. I see. YK: That’s important, you know. SM: So it’s a little bit like the minister’s wife then. SK: Sure. Yes. SM: She has to do a lot of things in the church. YK: Yes. Yes. SK: Yes. So . . . who is the president’s wife is managing that. All of the Korean women’s . . . YK: Activities especially. And food. SM: Oh. SK: Activities and all the organization and all the responsibility. SM: That’s a lot of work then. YK: Yes. SK: Yes. SM: Cooking and all that. [Chuckles] YK: Yes, cooking. SK: Yes. Or we had . . . YK: They’re just always cooking. [Chuckles] SM: Is that the biggest job, the cooking? YK: Yes. SK: Yes. We had . . . what was at the Civic Center last year. 69

SM: Oh, the international. SK: International. SM: Fest . . . International festival. SK: Festival, we . . . SM: Festival of Nations. YK: Festival of Nations. SK: Festival of Nations we had last time. YK: She’s the chairman of the market. Yes, market. SM: Oh, you were chairman. SK: Yes. I had to involve . . . how many people? YK: A hundred people about. SK: More than a hundred women. YK: She asked, you know. SM: Oh. SK: I just . . . YK: A hundred women, you know. SM: To work on it. SK: To work on it. YK: To work on it, yes. [Chuckles] She asked them. SM: I see. YK: Not, you know, me. [Chuckles] SM: I see. Well, then it’s a little different from the minister’s wife because they told me that they aren’t supposed to have any elected office in the church. But I think they do a lot of work. 70

YK: Yes. Yes. SK: Now . . . exactly now president is that the first of the Korean Association and the next old Korean church under the Korean Association. SM: Oh. Oh, they’re now under the Korean Association. SK: Yes, exactly. SM: I see. SK: Not, you know . . . but . . . so kind of a minister’s wife is managing the church, that’s, you know, their church area. SM: Oh. Yes. SK: But the president . . . Korean Association president is managing the all the Korean Association including church and, you know, all of us. YK: Some . . . social. SM: I see. So that’s a bigger challenge. [Chuckles] SK: Yes, bigger. Yes. Yes. YK: Social group. Yes. Social group. SK: So a president’s wife is managing all the Korean churches, the ministers’ wives, and the membership, and all the people, you know, just . . . YK: She has to have also . . . SK: Yes, managing. SM: It’s a very big job. SK: No, they’re helping Korean Association like that. Yes. SM: Yes. I see. So that is a lot of work then. SK: Yes. YK: Yes. So his wife has to have also personality. SM: Yes. [Chuckles] And some organizing ability, I guess. 71

YK: Yes. You know, somebody that’s bother . . . you know, bothering somebody, then they couldn’t . . . SM: Oh, she has to intervene in little conflicts or to smooth over arguments or something? YK: Yes, something, argument, why are you asking me helping some cooking something. SM: Ah. Oh, I see. YK: I don’t want to. I don’t want to, you know. SM: You have to persuade them to do it. [Chuckles] YK: I don’t want to. So you say here, you know, oh, we have to do it. SK: Who is that? SM: [Chuckles] YK: Or something explaining that. And they okay, I’ll do it. You know. SM: [Chuckles] I see. So she has to persuade them. YK: Every year we have to do, you know with the cooking and maybe [unclear] times. Koreans Days. SM: Yes. YK: Festival of Nations. And Aquatennial. Some, you know, big meeting. SM: Like what kind of big meeting? Is it Korean Association? SK: Korean Association. YK: Like there’s a Korean Day and something like . . . yes, Korean Association, you know. SM: Yes. I see. Oh. So then it is something like the minister’s wife’s job but on a bigger scale. SK: Bigger scale. SM: Yes. SK: Minister’s wife is a church area, but the . . . my case is all over. 72

SM: Yes. [Chuckles] SK: The church including Korean Association. SM: I see. Yes. YK: Yes, she . . . you know, knows a lot of people. SM: Yes. I see. SK: So we have exactly seven churches in this area. SM: Seven churches. SK: Yes. When I have to have something, a special meeting, then I have to call all the seven churches’ ministers’ wives . . . SM: Oh! YK: [Chuckles] SK: And membership, and help this, and you’ve got to help . . . SM: Oh, so you call the ministers’ wives and then she calls the women of the church? SK: Well . . . SM: Or do you call them instead? YK: No, she calls them. SK: Sometimes I call all the membership and ministers’ wives and things like that. SM: Oh. [Chuckles] That could take hours. [Chuckles] SK: [Chuckles] More than hours. SM: Oh. YK: So we picked up a hundred people last year, you know. This year. SM: Oh, to work on . . . YK: On Festival of Nations, you know. 73

SM: I see. SK: Another festival comes . . . YK: [Unclear] and make something. SK: Another festival comes April. SM: Oh, this April. YK: Yes. She’s planning now. She’s planning. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, she’s already working on it. [Chuckles] SK: That’s a big job. SM: Oh, yes. SK: We took care of how many people. YK: You know, a little [unclear] you know, but it’s a hard . . . SM: It’s a really big job. SK: It’s a big job. SM: So the women do a lot of the work of the community. SK: Yes. YK: Also my daughters helped a lot. SM: Oh, do they? YK: [Unclear]. She’s teaching dancing at Korean Institute over there. SM: Is she? Oh. YK: [Unclear]. SM: Is there a Korean dance group? YK: Yes. SM: Oh, over at the . . . 74

SK: She is the teacher. SM: And she’s the teacher. SK: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: I see. What is her name? SK: Kim. YK: Kim Ko. SM: Kim Ko. Oh. Where did she learn it, in Korea? SK: At Korea. She started when she was six years old. SM: Oh. SK: She went to the dancing school. SM: I see. YK: This summer. SM: Oh, this summer? YK: Yes. [Chuckles] SK: No, no, no, no. SM: Oh. SK: She [chuckles] he doesn’t know, he was here in America. SM: [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] Just one here. SK: I sent her to the Korean dancing school at Korea. SM: Oh. SK: When she was six years old, she didn’t want to do it the first time, but later on. [Chuckles] And she went out . . . 75

YK: [Unclear]. SK: Childrens . . . she got the trophy, too. SM: She got the trophy? SK: Yes. Won a children’s day at Korea. SM: Oh. SK: And she had the second prizes. SM: Oh. SK: After she learned. And she came here and I made her practice at home about several years. SM: I see. SK: And until that time she cried and she didn’t want to do it. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] SK: But finally she started interesting, you know, to learn. SM: Oh, I see. SK: And first . . . SM: How old was she when she came over here? SK: Seven years. SM: Seven. Yes. I see. So you really taught her after Korea. SK: Yes. Now . . . and I . . . YK: Plus we . . . SK: We brought her summer last time, too, and we sent her to the dancing school. SM: Oh. Oh, you took her to Korea. YK: Yes. That’s how I told you, you know. That’s what I mean. 76

SK: On to the dancing school. SM: Oh, that’s what you were saying. YK: Yes. [Chuckles] We took her to Korea, I said. SM: Yes. So she attended. YK: Sent her to dancing school, you know. SM: I see. YK: [Unclear] training. That’s two weeks training, you know. And really hard. SM: Yes. I see. So now she’s pretty interested in this. SK: Yes, she’s very . . . likes to do. YK: Enjoys it. SM: I see. Well, did you study dancing, too, or when you . . .? SK: When I was in school I really loved to do it and sometimes I did it at the school and we had a special day. SM: I see. SK: But I did not learn like her, you know. But I learned from the school teacher. SM: Oh. I see. SK: At the school. SM: Yes. SK: Not like, you know . . . SM: Not from a dancing school. SK: Yes, professional dancing school. SM: I see. Oh, thank you. That helps. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] 77

SM: Oh, well that’s . . . so now she teaches it to the other Korean [unclear]. SK: She teaches very well. SM: Did [unclear] do any dancing at the Festival of Nations? I saw they had some groups were dancing. SK: Yes, that was her last Festival of Nations. SM: Oh, I see. SK: Yes, her group was. And this Aquatennial she brought them out, too. SM: I see. Does her group have a name? SK: Hmmm. Exactly she’s teaching at Korean School. YK: They . . . yes, belong to the Korean Institute. SM: Korean Institute dancing group. YK: Yes. SK: Yes, dancing group. YK: Dancing class. SM: Oh, dancing class. I see. Is she your oldest daughter then? SK: Yes. SM: Yes. Well, that . . . when the women put on these meals for different organization things, do the children help sometimes, the sons or daughters? SK: At home? SM: Oh no, well, at home too, but in . . . when you’re fixing for the Festival of Nations or something. SK: Oh, sure. Oh, yes. Yes. They’re helping us, too. SM: I see. Do the sons help, too? SK: Serve . . . 78

YK: Managing the money. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] SK: [Chuckles] Serve the food and . . . YK: Serve the food. SK: Yes. SM: Is that mainly the girls that help or . . .? SK: Girls. YK: I did. SK: And we have a lot . . . SM: Did you help, too? YK: I did, you know. [Unclear]. Do you know Dr. [unclear]? Did you meet? SM: Dr. who? YK: Dr. [unclear]. SM: Oh, I’m not sure. YK: No. No. [Unclear] Dr. Park. SM: Yes. Oh, I met Dr. Park. YK: Milton Park. SM: Yes. Yes. YK: Oh. He, you know, did a lot of help. SM: Oh. So the men help some, too. YK: [Unclear] cook. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] YK: Yes, that’s a very strong personality, you know. He has a strong personality. 79

SM: Yes. Yes. SK: Yes, last . . . at the Festival of Nations we had so many guests who came and food was ran out and all the men just get into the kitchen and they just helped us. SM: Oh. YK: Yes. SM: Yes. Well, would the men help in the kitchen in Korea or just American? YK: [Jokingly] No, no. Never, never, never. SM: [Laughter] SK: That’s a problem. [Laughter] YK: That is . . . you know, why this is stay here, I want to go back to Korea. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] So this is one form of adaptation to American . . . SK: They don’t do nothing. SM: [Chuckles] In Korea. YK: Korea. SM: Yes. I see. YK: Especially in kitchen. SM: [Chuckles] SK: They think only to work out of the house. SM: Yes. SK: Like a [unclear]. SM: But then in Korea not so many women work, is that right? SK: Not there, jobs. YK: Stay at home, yes. 80

SM: Yes. So it’s a little different situation. SK: And most of them there have a housekeeper. SM: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, that makes a difference. Yes, Dr. Park had the idea that . . . when I told him about this project . . . I guess I didn’t explain it to you yet, did I. [Chuckles] We’re writing a book about the ethnic groups in Minnesota. SK: I see. SM: For the Minnesota Historical Society. SK: I see. YK: Mmmm. SM: I’m working on some of the Asian groups. And when I told Dr. Park about it, he suggested having a big meeting in January of many of the leaders of the community and other people. YK: Yes. SM: And to talk about it all together, since different people have a little different view and . . . YK: Sure. SM: I think it would be a very good idea. I hope he does it. [Chuckles] YK: Yes, I hope so. SM: He thought maybe on a Saturday, you know, when people aren’t working. SK: He helps him really a lot. YK: Yes. SM: He does what? SK: He helps out. SM: Oh, he does? Oh . . . YK: Yes, we’re very close to him, you know, friends. SM: Was he a president at one time? 81

YK: Yes. SK: He was. SM: Oh, yes. SK: He was the . . . YK: A couple . . . maybe . . . SK: Three years ago. YK: Yes, three years ago. SM: Oh, I see. YK: Now he’s a chairman of the board, you know, for the . . . SM: That’s what I thought he said. YK: Yes. SM: So he was president for two years. YK: Mmmm, one year. SK: No, one year. SM: One year. YK: Yes. SM: I see. But now he’s chairman of the board. YK: Yes, two years’ term, it started in 1979. SM: Ah ha. YK: From, you know, me. SM: I see. YK: I don’t know why they . . . why are you keeping it two years, you know? Just I . . . one is enough. And they say, oh, no, no, no [unclear]. 82

SM: [Chuckles] They want to keep you there. YK: Yes, changing [unclear] you know. SM: Oh, yes. SK: So he has to go into next year. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. Until 1980. SK: 1980. YK: 1980, yes. SM: Yes. Well, that’s pretty soon. SK: Yes, that was started this year so he has to exactly have to first started term two years president. SM: Oh, so he has to do it next year, too. SK: Yes. YK: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. SK: Before him, everybody was first, you know, one year. SM: Oh, I see. YK: So I don’t like this, you know, two years. That’s a very hard times [unclear]. SM: That’s a lot of work. YK: Yes, a lot of work. SM: Yes. YK: If we have any conversation, you know, [unclear] so we have to work, you know, in the family, for the family. SM: Yes. Yes. Right. Well, I really appreciate your help on this. 83

YK: [Chuckles] SK: [Chuckles] SM: Maybe if I have some questions later I can give you a call? YK: Sure. SK: Sure. Sure, any time. SM: It’s usually when I get home and I start thinking about it, then I think, oh, I should have asked them this. YK: [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] But well, I hope to keep in touch with you. YK: Oh, sure. SM: Maybe I’ll see you at that church sometime. It’s not very far from where I live. YK: Oh, where do you live? SK: Oh. SM: Well, it’s pretty far, but . . . I live north of Stillwater. YK: Oh, Stillwater. Mmmm. SM: Yes. So . . . YK: Do you know Mr. Han? Han . . . SM: Yes, I talked to him. YK: He lives near Stillwater. SM: Yes, and he goes to that church. YK: Yes. SM: And tonight I’m going to interview Mr. Lee. Sang Lee, who also lives in Stillwater, but he goes to the Presbyterian church, I think. YK: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Sang [unclear] Lee. Yes. 84

SM: Yes. YK: Yes, Sang. SM: Where does he work? Does he work in . . .? YK: He’s at 3M Company. SM: 3M. YK: Yes. SM: Oh, yes. That . . . is that the same as Han? Or is he . . .? SK: Yes. YK: Yes, yes, yes. SM: Yes. SK: Same place. SM: Oh, yes. YK: Han is the same. SM: That’s convenient to live in Stillwater, I guess. YK: And so you . . . if you want this, you know, book and then I’ll give you this one. I have some [unclear]. [Rustling paper noises] SM: Oh. YK: This is a Korean . . . [Rustling paper noises] SM: [Gasps] Oh. YK: Is it in English or not? This . . . SM: Yes. 85

YK: Oh, yes. English. SM: Oh, it’s a beautiful book. Who picks that out? [Telephone rings – Yung Lyun Ko leaves to answer it] SK: He brought them from Korea. SM: From Korea. Oh. Could I borrow this? SK: He’s going to give it to you. SM: Oh, that’s really nice. SK: You can keep it and look. SM: It’s nice photography, isn’t it? And the factories. SK: All . . . most of the Koreans developing their [unclear] there. SM: I see. SK: We looked all over at this time when we went there. They showed it to us. SM: Oh. Different housing developments and . . . Are you from Seoul, too? SK: Yes. SM: Yes. Oh. Oh, somebody suggested I should ask you about getting a directory. Do you have this . . .? SK: Oh, yes. He’s making the directory now. SM: Yes. Oh, he’s making it. SK: He just started making it. SM: Oh, that’s last years? SK: Yes. SM: Oh. Oh, you added in those, too. So you’re just making a new one here. Oh. Oh, that’s a lot of new people. 86

SK: He has to start 1980 directory. SM: I see. Maybe when that one’s done I could to try to buy a copy from you. Yes. When do they come out? The beginning of the year? Okay. [Unclear]. SK: He’s just working on it now. SM: Oh, I bet that’s a big job. SK: That’s a lot of work. SM: Oh, yes. SK: He doesn’t go to work now and he already works on it. YK: [Laughter] SM: [Laughter] How does he manage that? [Chuckles] SK: I’m the only to work for the money and he just . . . you know, working for the Korean Association. SM: [Unclear]. Well, he has real commitment. YK: We have to do it. We have to do something for the Korean community. SK: It’s hard for everybody. YK: It’s a full group, full group, you know. SM: Yes. YK: But you think something [unclear] full group, you know. SM: Oh, yes. Right. SK: Oh, I was going to ask you whether it was cold. SM: Oh, that’s alright. SK: We are still . . . Would you like to . . .? SM: I don’t mind if it’s cold. [Chuckles] YK: [Chuckles] 87

SK: Oh, if it’s hot, it’s better, but . . . I forgot to ask you. SM: Oh, it’s very good. Did you bring that with you from Korea? SK: Yes. SM: Oh. Well, thank you both, very much. YK: Also, you have to have contact with journalism, you know. Journalism. SM: Oh, journalism? YK: Yes, journalist. SM: Oh, journalist? YK: I mean a newspaperman, you know. SM: Oh. Yes. YK: We have two newspapers. A couple. SM: Oh, that are written here? They come from . . .? YK: Chicago. SM: Oh. I see. What are their names? Or are they in Korean? I suppose. YK: Oh, yes. Yes. SM: Two Korean newspapers from Chicago. YK: Yes. One is a Han Kook [Ilbo]. SM: Han Kook? YK: Yes [unclear]. SM: Oh. H-A-N. And then . . . YK: K-O-O-K. SM: Okay. 88

YK: Ilbo. SM: Ilbo? YK: I-L-B-O. SM: B-O. YK: B-O. SM: B-O. That means newspaper? YK: Yes. SM: Yes. And that’s . . . YK: Yes. And there’s a Chungang. SM: Chungang. YK: [Unclear] I guess. Mmmm, yes. Chungang Ilbo. SM: A-H-N? YK: Yes. SM: G? YK: G, yes. SM: Oh. And these . . . do most Koreans take these papers? YK: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. YK: Maybe fifty percent. SM: Oh. Yes. And does that carry any Minnesota news? YK: No, we have a Korean here, just a newsletter. SM: Oh, you have a Minnesota newsletter. YK: Yes. 89

SM: Does the Korean Association put that out? YK: Yes.

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