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Interview with Constancio F. and Luz A. Argueza

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Constancio Argueza was born in 1939 in the Philippines, in Munoz, Nueva Ecija, his mother's home town. He spent his early childhood in Bauang, La Union, at his father's home. His father died when he was six, and his mother died a year later. An only child, Constancio was raised by his father's sister, who took him to Quezon City, near Manila, to attend elementary school. After that he attended the Far Eastern University's Boys High School Department in Manila, and the Far Eastern University Institute of Finance. He majored in accounting and auditing and passed the required examinations to become a certified public accountant. His first job was in a government office, the Bureau of Commerce, where he met his future wife, Luz. After a year and a half in this job he changed to a private firm, the Liberty Insurance Company, before immigrating to the United States in 1972. Luz Argueza was born on February 6, 1941, in Alcala, Pangasinan, in the central Philippines. She attended high school and the Philippines College of Commerce, both in Manila. After graduation she obtained a job in the Bureau of Commerce and later changed to a position in an American firm before the family immigrated to the United States. Luz is also a certified public accountant. The couple was married in 1968, and their two children were born in the Philippines. Soon after their marriage they were urged by Luz's brother, a CPA in San Francisco, to move to the United States. He pointed out that they would qualify for admittance under an immigration preference for professionals. They applied in December of 1968 and were accepted by the United States in 1972. Constancio is a CPA for Honeywell Corporation in Minneapolis, and Luz is a CPA for Good Value Homes in Anoka. Both are active participants in Filipino community organizations in the Twin Cities. Luz is secretary of the Fil-Minnesotan Association, secretary-treasurer of the Filipino Advisory Council, and a board member of the Minnesota Asian American Club. Both have been officers of the Filipino American Club. The Arguezas believe it is very important for their children to appreciate their Filipino heritage, and that the family's participation in Filipino organizations is the best way to attain the appreciation. SUBJECTS DISCUSSED: The Arguezas discuss the post-1965 Filipino immigrants, known as the New Immigrants, who are largely professionals. This group has been predominantly doctors and nurses in Minnesota, but a sizeable number of accountants and other professionals have also settled in the state. The Arguezas point to greater economic and professional opportunities as the primary motivation for this group's immigration to the United States. They also note the recent efforts of the Marcos government to stem the brain drain" of medical personnel in particular. They discuss the goals and activities of Filipino organizations and also the growing usage of the term "Pilipino" rather than "Filipino" among the recent immigrants. COMMENTS ON INTERVIEW: The Arguezas are typical of the many young professionals who have immigrated to Minnesota from the Philippines since the liberalization of United States immigration law in 1965. Like the Arguezas

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0:54:39

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Constancio F. Argueza Luz A. Argueza Narrators Sarah Mason Interviewer December 12, 1978 Minnesota

Sarah Mason -SM Constancio Argueza -CA Luz Argueza -LA

SM: I’m talking to Stan and Luz Argueza on December 12, 1978. This is an interview under the auspices of the Minnesota Historical Society. The interviewer is Sarah Mason. Let’s begin with you, Luz, with your childhood and your family, where you came from in the Philippines. LA: Oh, yes. I came from the Philippines and, you know, I was born on February 6, 1941. That was before the World War II. And I was born in [unclear] which is the central part of the country. And I began my studies in the same town after high school. When I graduated the high school then I moved to Manila, Philippines, which is the capital of the country, to study in college. And I enrolled at the Philippines College of Commerce. I graduated from that college. And after graduation I took my work, I go and get a job. And I first got my job at a Europost [sp?]. Then I moved to do Europe Commerce. SM: That was a government job? LA: Yes, those are all government jobs. SM: I see. LA: Then after that I finally decided to go to a private firm. This is the American Machinery and Parts Manufacturing Company. I worked there for almost eight years. Probably, I didn’t get out from the job . . . you know, if I didn’t come to America . . . [Laughter] SM: [Chuckles] That’s why you came. [Chuckles] So you worked there until you came to the United States? LA: Yes. Yes. SM: What year was that? 1

LA: Yes, that 1972 when I . . . SM: 1972. LA: Yes. SM: When did you first think about the possibility of coming to the United States to . . .? LA: When we got married in 1968, my brother, who is now in California, you know, convinced my husband to file his papers, too, to apply to come here in America. SM: I see. LA: He was convinced [chuckles] and then he went to the Embassy to file. [Laughter] CA: I was convinced. LA: And, you know, by that time, you know, when you file your papers in the Embassy, you should be there early in the morning to be in line. SM: Oh. Oh, that sounds like a job. LA: [Chuckles] With all, you know, with all your diplomas, all . . . everything you have to bring with you. CA: Documents. Other documents. SM: Oh. Births and death . . . CA: Yes. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: I mean, birth and marriage and . . . LA: Birth certificates, you know, transcript of records. Your diploma. SM: Oh. CA: Diploma. SM: Oh, because they give preference to the professionals. LA: Yes. Yes, right. 2

CA: Professionals. I guess that’s the preference that was often before . . . LA: Second preference. CA: . . . second preference. And that was opened to all professionals. SM: I see. LA: Yes. SM: And . . . but did you also have a relative? Did that help? Isn’t that one of the preferences, to have a relative? LA: Well, yes, you know . . . SM: Oh, it has to be a close relative though, doesn’t it? LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Close relative. SM: Yes. So you came on the professional preference. LA: Yes. CA: Yes. Aside from that, although you don’t have a relative here, as long as you are a professional, it’s true you can come. LA: Yes. Still they could come. SM: Yes, right. CA: Yes. SM: I see. So in 1968 you first filed. CA: Yes. LA: Yes, filed. And then, you know, he waited for two years, right? CA: No, three years. LA: Three years.

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CA: Because it was approved . . . no. We got married in May 1968, I applied around December 1968 or that means around 1969, and it was approved 1972. SM: Oh, so that . . . LA: Yes, it takes . . . but it takes that long, too, you know, to wait. SM: Oh, yes. About three years. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Right around three years. LA: Close to three years. SM: Oh, I see. So there is a big backlog. LA: Yes. Yes, right. CA: Yes. SM: I see. LA: So when he got his . . . CA: But that third preference was often around 1966 or 1967. LA: I don’t know. SM: What was the third preference? CA: That’s the third preference. LA: [Unclear]. No, we were in the second preference. CA: No, third preference. LA: What is the second preference then? CA: I don’t know. That’s brother or sister, I think. Third preferences are those professionals. SM: Is professional. Oh, I see. Yes. LA: [Unclear] I don’t know that. 4

SM: Is it quicker with the first and second one, to get in or not? CA: If your parents are the ones who will petition you. SM: Oh. That’s the quicker . . . CA: That’s more quicker rather than third preference. SM: I see. CA: Yes. And they can petition you also whether you’re a professional or not as long as that he or she is your parents. SM: Oh. I see. Yes. So did you look for a job before you came or after you came? Do some people try to find a job before they come here? Does that help in getting in? LA: Well, there were some, too, you know, that had that. But we don’t have that. CA: We don’t. SM: I see. You just came first. LA: We came here and then after we were here, then that’s the time we looked for a job. SM: I see. CA: And that’s one reason why I came here first. SM: To find . . . LA: Because we don’t want to take chances on that before that possibly we’ll be unemployed, you know, with two kids! CA: [Chuckles] LA: Because both of my two kids were born there. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. LA: Yes, they were both born in the Philippines. SM: I see. LA: Yes, so he came ahead. I said, “I don’t want to be unemployed there.” [Laughter] 5

SM: Right. Oh, you still had your in the Philippines? LA: Yes, I still had my job. Yes. SM: I see. That was good. LA: But what is funny, you know, he was here already and then finally I get the paper from the U.S. Embassy, you know, for me to fill up so I could come here, too. SM: And he was already here? LA: Yes, he was already here, you know. So I called, overseas call to him, and I said, “Why did you petition me without my knowledge?” SM: [Chuckles] LA: And he said, “No, I didn’t file a petition. I didn’t get you here yet.” He said, “I’m not ready for that yet, to get you here!” SM: [Chuckles] Oh. LA: So I called the Embassy, you know, and just said, you know, telling them what happened. And they told me, “Well, there’s a new law again here in the U.S. Embassy,” they said, “That if your husband is already in America . . .” SM: Yes. Then you have to go? [Chuckles] LA: Then, you know, “You have to go, because you had your name here on the list,” they said. SM: Oh . . . I see. LA: “But if you are not ready to go, don’t file that yet.” SM: Oh, just hold for a while. LA: Yes, just hold it. Just keep your paper. Just file it when you are ready to go. SM: I see. LA: But I thought [unclear] of the . . . you know, as long as I had this paper, but still I had to be waiting for him. SM: [Chuckles] LA: So you know what I did, Sarah? I filled that up right at the Embassy. [Chuckles] 6

SM: Yes. LA: And then after a week I was called for an interview. SM: Oh. LA: Because I had already a visa number assigned, you know, to me. SM: Oh. Yes. LA: So I take that chance already. So I filed it now. [Chuckles] CA: It was there already, included in my papers. SM: Oh, yes. LA: And what is funny is you know when I went for an interview, you know, [unclear] all the papers already there, you know. And I’m missing one paper, affidavit of support, you know. [Chuckles] SM: Oh. LA: And I told them, you know, I told my interviewer, “I know I was already included in my husband’s affidavit of support.” And they look at his records, you know. They found that affidavit.” Oh, I’m sorry,” they said, “It’s only your husband. Your name is not here. You’re not included with this paper. So you need one for yourself.” “Oh, gee,” I said. “Would it be possible that I could get one here in the Philippines, you know, not getting from my husband?” “That’s okay,” he said. SM: Oh. LA: Oh, so you know what I did? [Chuckles] I called my boss at the work right away. SM: Oh. LA: I said, “I need an affidavit of support from you.” And he said, “Okay, get back here to work then, and I will make one for you.” [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles] LA: So that very same day I go back to work and I get my affidavit of support from my boss. SM: I see. 7

LA: The following morning I went again to the Embassy and filed it. SM: Yes. Well, that was pretty quick. LA: It was fast, really. SM: Yes. LA: And then I called him right away and all my papers are ready. [Chuckles] SM: I see. So then you just bought a ticket and . . . yes. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Oh, I see. CA: Then I said to myself, if those others can do it, so I can do it also. SM: [Chuckles] Yes. CA: [Unclear] family here. SM: Yes. LA: But it was . . . I was lucky, too, there. SM: Right. LA: Because when I came here, we arrived here in Minnesota on Saturday. SM: Yes. LA: Well, when we first came here to America I stayed first in San Francisco for a week [unclear]. SM: Oh, with your brother. LA: Yes, with my brother. SM: Yes. LA: Then we came here after a week. The following morning . . . no. The following Monday . . . because we arrived here Saturday, right? CA: Yes. 8

LA: Monday, he took off from work. He took me downtown. SM: Oh, he did have a job already. LA: Yes, he was already working. CA: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. LA: Yes. He took me downtown Minneapolis, you know, we went to the agencies, you know. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. CA: The employment agencies. LA: The employment agencies. And then, you know, two days . . . I . . . you know, I go to work. SM: Two days you had a job? LA: Yes, for two days. Yes. No, after . . . I applied Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And then Thursday I got a call. SM: [Chuckles] LA: They want me . . . you know. They want me to go for . . . you know, to work. SM: Oh, good night. That’s really quick! [Chuckles] LA: Yes. CA: Yes. It’s just . . . LA: But I told them, “Can I start Monday?” [Chuckles] CA: Because she doesn’t have any SS number. SM: Oh . . . LA: Because I didn’t have my social security number then by that time, you know. SM: Oh, yes. Yes. 9

LA: And they need it. SM: Yes. LA: And I said, “I don’t have it yet. Why don’t you let me start Monday?” You know, if I could get my social security number. SM: They were really in a hurry. LA: So and they said, “Okay.” SM: Yes. LA: The following day I got my social security number. SM: Oh. LA: So I’m ready to start Monday. SM: Yes. Good night. You couldn’t have asked for better. Well, is there a shortage here of accountants? Was that what you were in, accounting? LA: Yes. SM: Yes. LA: Ah . . . but I really don’t know if there was a shortage of accountants or not. CA: I don’t know. But I think it is luck. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] Talent. LA: So I didn’t . . . you know, they said, “You’re a liar.” A lot of Filipinos they said [unclear] one time and I was lying, because it took me only how many days, then I could get a job. SM: Well, that is very quick. Yes. CA: Sounds right, three days. SM: That’s very quick. LA: Yes, it was three days. CA: Three days. 10

LA: Thursday, I got, you know. I applied Monday and Thursday I got a call that I could get . . . you know, could get to work right away if I could! [Chuckles] SM: They didn’t even get used to the county that fast. [Chuckles] LA: That’s what they said, you know. “[Unclear] you should not do that right away,” they said. SM: Right. To get used it. LA: They said, “You should get yourself first adjusted to the style here before you go to work.” SM: Yes. LA: But I told them, I came here to, you know, to look for a job. SM: [Laughing] To work. LA: And not, you know, just to wait for my adjustment. And, you know, that’s what I told her, you know. SM: Yes. LA: While I’m working probably I could get an adjustments there ready by myself. SM: [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles] LA: But I just mentioned I have to wait for it, you know. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] That’s true, you could adjust while you’re working probably. LA: Yes. Yes, that’s right. CA: It took her three whole days to find a job and it took me also three weeks to look for a job. [Chuckles] SM: I know, well, that’s more average I would say. [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles] [Unclear]. SM: Well, what about your children? How did . . .? Did they get adjusted? [Chuckles] LA: Yes, you know, different . . . 11

SM: Or did they start school right away? LA: No, no. CA: No. LA: They were still a baby. SM: Oh. CA: A year old. SM: Sure. Right. LA: You know, during their first winter they both got sick, you know. SM: Oh, yes. It’s so cold. LA: But it’s not that, you know, it’s . . . yes. Yes. Yes, it was so cold. SM: Well, who took care of the children then? Did you have . . .? LA: Her aunt. SM: Oh, I see. That’s nice. LA: Yes, because we lived in their house and they don’t have any, you know, kids at all. CA: Kids. SM: Oh. LA: And she’s not working. SM: Oh, that was very convenient then. LA: Yes, so it was too convenient, really. SM: Yes. Yes. Well, that’s good. Otherwise it would eat up a lot of your money, too. LA: Oh, yes. Yes. CA: Oh, [unclear] tell you how though this, my aunt, we were also paying her. SM: Yes. When you were living . . . 12

CA: So like a babysitter. Yes. SM: Oh, I see. Yes. LA: Yes. Yes, we paid her, too. You know. CA: [Chuckles] SM: Yes. Keep the money in the family, in a way. LA: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] Yes. LA: So we’ll pay her service, too. She was not bad. SM: Sure. That’s fair enough. LA: Yes. It was to be fair. SM: Yes. Right. LA: Yes. SM: Well, maybe we should go to your childhood and catch up to where we are now. [Chuckles] CA: My childhood? [Chuckles] LA: [Chuckles] SM: From your childhood to your marriage. [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles] SM: Or to your arrival in the United States. CA: Oh. Actually, I was born in Muñoz Nueva Ecija, but I grew up in Bauang La Union. Because my mother came from Muñoz Nueva Ecija and my dad came from Bauang La Union. SM: I see. Could you spell that city your mother was from? LA: Muñoz. CA: Muñoz. M-U-N-O-Z. 13

LA: Z. SM: Yes. CA: Nueva Ecija. SM: Nueva . . . CA: N-U-E-V-A. Ecija, E-C . . . LA: I. CA: I. LA: J as in jar. CA: J-A. SM: I see. LA: A. CA: A. SM: And then an A. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Yes. LA: Nueva Ecija. SM: I see. CA: Then my mother died when I was, I think, six years old. No, first my father died when I was six years old and a year from that, my mother died. SM: Oh. CA: Then it’s my aunt, my father’s sister was the one who’d take good care of me when I was a boy. SM: Did you have brothers and sisters, too, then? Or . . . oh, just one . . . I see. 14

CA: I didn’t have any brothers or sisters. SM: I see. That was your father’s sister. CA: Yes. Then she brought me to Manila. SM: Oh. CA: And I attended my grade school in . . . is that also part of Manila, Quezon City? LA: No. CA: Quezon City. SM: Quezon City. C-A-S-S . . .? LA: Q. Q-U-E. CA: Q. SM: Q. CA: Q-U . . . SM: Oh, yes. You pronounce that [phonetically] ‘kay-son’. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: City. C-I-T-Y. SM: Okay. CA: And after that I finished my high school at Far Eastern University boy’s high school department, they say boy’s high school department. SM: Yes. CA: Then . . . SM: That’s in Manila? CA: Yes, that’s in Manila also. Then I went to . . . I forget now. I attended also . . . I took my commerce degree at Far Eastern University Institute of Accounts, Business, and Finance. That’s where I got the . . . 15

SM: Far Easter University School of Business, did you say? Or department? CA: Institute. SM: Oh, institute. Business and Finance? CA: Yes. Majored in accounting and auditing. SM: I see. CA: Then after that I took my board exam for my CPA certificate. Luckily, I passed it. [Chuckles] SM: And that’s the same one they take here, is it? CA: Yes. SM: Or you don’t have to take one again when you come here? CA: No. SM: I see. CA: Then . . . where did I meet you? [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] CA: We met each other through my cousin who was working at . . . who was her coworker at that Europe Commerce. SM: Oh. CA: That’s a government office. SM: I see. CA: Where, in fact, I started working also at that general auditing office, in GAW, we called it GAW. SM: Oh. GAW? CA: Yes. General auditing office. SM: Oh, yes. 16

CA: Then after working there for . . . I think it’s a year and a half, I went to . . . I worked for Liberty Insurance Company. SM: Liberty? CA: Yes. Yes. I worked there until I came here as an immigrant. SM: Yes. CA: Oh, you forgot to mention that aside [from] working . . . aside [from] working as an employee at the company, we worked also as . . . as a CPA practitioner. SM: Oh, you mean you had your own practice? CA: Yes. Yes. SM: I see. Was that . . .? Did you have a lot of people coming then? CA: Mmmm, little bit. SM: Oh, yes. CA: Because if she’s the accountant, I’m the auditor. [Chuckles] Because you cannot . . . because if you are the accountant, you can’t certificate . . . or you can’t sign on the certificate. It’s always signed by an independent certified public accountant. Then if I’m the accountant, she’s the auditor. [Chuckles] SM: I see. CA: It is a husband and wife little auditing firm like that. [Chuckles] SM: I see. Well, someday you could have your own company. CA: [Laughter] LA: See, because I . . . then you know, we had . . . are the same profession, so we might as well . . . [Chuckles] SM: Get together. [Chuckles] CA: And her brother also is a CPA also, practitioner. SM: Oh. He’s just on his own then? LA: Yes. 17

SM: He doesn’t work for another company?

CA: No. LA: That’s in the Philippines. CA: That’s in the Philippines. SM: Oh, in the Philippines. LA: Yes. CA: Yes. SM: Is this the brother that’s in San Francisco? LA: Yes. SM: I see. Well, let’s see. Are there quite a few CPAs among the new immigrants? Like . . .? LA: [Unclear] no. Not here in Minnesota. CA: In California. LA: In California there’s a lot. Yes. SM: In California. CA: California and New York. SM: Oh. LA: Yes. Because all our friends, you know, where we got the same profession, they’re all there. SM: Oh. CA: They don’t want to come here because maybe it’s the weather. [Chuckles] LA: Don’t want to stay in the snow. [Chuckles] SM: Is the job market good for CPAs? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. 18

SM: It must be. [Chuckles] LA: Yes. SM: Well, Tito is something like that, too. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: But are there any others you know of in that Minnesota group? LA: Oh, that’s a CPA? SM: Yes. CA: Well . . . LA: [Unclear] is one. [Unclear] Del Mundo, I think, is an accountant, too. Is that right? CA: Yes, but they are not certified public accountants. LA: Yes, they are not certified. CA: They work as an accountant but they are . . . they don’t have any certificate. LA: Yes. Right. They are not certified. Even Tito, he’s not certified. CA: [Unclear]. Oh . . . even Tito, he’s not certified. SM: Oh. Well, see, what is the difference then? You work for another company, you don’t have to be certified? LA: No. No. CA: You can be an accountant . . . SM: He’s an auditor, right? CA: There are some companies that you can be an accountant whether you are a certified public accountant or not. SM: Oh, I see. CA: The CPA certification means that you passed the board exam for . . . 19

SM: Oh, I see. LA: Accountancy. CA: . . . accountancy. SM: I see. LA: Yes. SM: But you can just study it and then take a job. LA: Yes. CA: Yes. But you can also become an accountant although you didn’t pass the CPA exam. SM: I see. I see, and that’s what Tito . . . LA: Yes, Tito’s an accountant, I think. But he is not a CPA. CA: Yes, but he’s not certified. SM: I see. I see. So there aren’t a large number of them among the Filipinos here? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. SM: There are quite a few? LA: Yes. SM: Oh, I see. CA: There’s one woman, it’s Benedicta Hernandez [sp?]. LA: Yes. SM: Oh. CA: Yes. SM: She’s a CPA? CA: She is a CPA. LA: CPA, yes. She’s working at Young Quinlan. 20

CA: She’s an accountant at Young Quinlan. SM: Oh. So there are quite a few of them then. Not as many as doctors and nurses. [Chuckles] LA: Yes, right. [Chuckles] SM: Is that mainly in Minnesota or in New York and San Francisco are there a lot of Filipino doctors and nurses, too? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. CA: Yes. SM: They’re everywhere. LA: Yes. Yes, in every state, I think. Yes, but in [unclear], you know . . . SM: Oh, yes. Are there a lot of medical schools there? Or some are trained here, but quite a few are trained in the Philippines. LA: You know, all of the . . . you know, almost all universities there have a medical school. SM: I see. LA: Yes. SM: Yes, because there seem to be quite a lot. LA: Yes, there are a lot, you know. SM: Right. Is that a very prestigious kind of job? CA: Yes. LA: For a profession? Oh, yes. SM: Yes. CA: Yes, doctors. SM: And also . . . LA: Because if you are a doctor, you know, you are something else, really. [Chuckles] 21

SM: So that’s one reason a lot of people go into it, is it? Or . . . LA: Well, if you could afford it, you know. SM: If you could afford it. [Chuckles] LA: Yes, if you can. Because that is really expensive. SM: Oh. Oh. LA: You know, [unclear] to get into. SM: So it would be more the richer people that would go? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. CA: Yes, that would go. SM: So they’re rich when they go into the training and they get richer afterwards. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: [Chuckles] LA: That’s the way it is. [Chuckles] CA: [Unclear]. SM: The rich get richer. LA: Yes. Because you cannot go to, you know, to become a doctor if you . . . you know, if you belong to a, you know, just indigent family or just an average family. SM: Yes. Well, what kind of family? Would like children of teachers or officials, would they become doctors? LA: Oh, yes. CA: Yes. LA: Yes, it’s just . . . or, you know, even if they are not, you know . . . ah, let me see, that have professional parents. But if they had the right lands, you know, to be cultivated or they had a farm, you know. SM: Oh. Oh, yes. 22

CA: Or they have a business maybe. LA: Where they could . . . or they had their business of their own, you know, where they could get their big income. Then they could afford to let their children go to, you know . . . CA: But the board exam in the Philippines is really hard to pass, that CPA. SM: It is? LA: Yes. SM: Oh. CA: Yes, that’s the . . . LA: That’s the worst board exam. SM: Really. LA: Yes. CA: It’s like very hard to pass. LA: There was even a year, you know, that, oh, there are a lot of examinists, no one passed. SM: Oh. CA: [Chuckles] LA: They said you really have to go through and, you know . . . what do they call that? A needle. CA: A needle. SM: [Unclear]. LA: You know, passing through a needles eye, really. Yes. SM: Oh. Well, do they make it deliberately hard to keep people out? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. SM: Oh.

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CA: Like when . . . when I passed that one, we are only at a hundred eighty-six out of four thousand. LA: Yes. SM: [Gasps] Oh! LA: Not like, you know . . . not like doctors, you know. CA: [Chuckles] Not like a doctor. LA: That there are a lot. CA: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Oh. LA: You know, nurses, like that. SM: That’s easier? LA: It would all go by how many pages, you know, of the newspaper, you know. SM: Oh. LA: For the names to be published, that’s so fast. SM: Oh. So it’s really easier to pass for nurses and . . .? LA: I think so. Yes. CA: Yes. Yes, but the mortality of passing is in . . . with that CPA is very tough. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, that’s interesting. CA: It’s hard. That’s why there’s a lot of commerce graduates in the Philippines who came here who is not certified. SM: Oh, I see. Because they didn’t pass. CA: Yes. [Chuckles] LA: Yes, they didn’t pass the CPA.

24

SM: [Chuckles] But are there any who don’t try to pass it? I mean they don’t . . . they’re doing a different kind of work, like an accountant for a firm. Or would everybody try it usually? [Chuckles] LA: [Chuckles] I think so, yes. CA: [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. I see. Well, for a CPA especially, what’s the advantage of coming to the United States? More jobs or . . .? LA: Well, we just took our chance, you know. Just taking . . . SM: Yes. It wasn’t anything to do with being that profession then? LA: No. No. No, we just took a chance, you know. Because it was so famous before in the Philippines, you know, for immigrants and especially professionals to come over to the Philippines, you know. CA: [Chuckles] LA: It looks like it’s . . . you know, it’s already a tradition. SM: Yes, it really does seem to be a tradition. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Oh, it’s just . . . LA: You know, as soon as you graduate from college, you know, they go right away to the . . . you know, to the United States. SM: For professionals. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Well, in the old days, they came here to study and then went back to be professionals. LA: Yes. SM: Because they couldn’t get a job here. LA: Yes. It’s just, you know, the opposite. SM: But it’s the opposite now. 25

LA: Yes. Yes. SM: I see. So after you graduate in the Philippines from a professional school then you would just automatically go to . . . LA: Yes. Yes. Just like the nurses, you know, there are a lot of nurses who came here for just an exchange visa. SM: Yes. LA: [Unclear] visitor. Like that. CA: Yes. SM: Oh. LA: Yes. SM: But then did they go back? Or they stayed? CA: [Chuckles] LA: Some of them go back, some of them stayed. [Chuckles] CA: There are a few. SM: A few went back. [Chuckles] LA: Yes, just a few. You could count. CA: All of them stayed here. LA: Mostly stayed here, you know. SM: Oh. Most stayed here. LA: Yes. SM: And what about the students? Did most of them stay? Among the old timers . . . CA: Some of them . . . some of those students also stayed here, yes. LA: [Unclear] stayed here, you know. 26

SM: [Chuckles] LA: They find a way how to, you know, not to go back. SM: Yes. Well, especially in the old days they were nationals. LA: Yes. SM: I mean, they didn’t have to go back or anything. LA: Yes. Right. SM: Or they weren’t even supposed to or whatever. LA: Yes. SM: Hmmm. Well, that’s interesting. But well, who were the nurses in the Philippines? [Chuckles] Somebody must stay there. CA: Some are there still. LA: [Unclear] some were. Now they are already, you know, limiting, you know, professionals to get out of the country. SM: Oh, I see. LA: Especially doctors and nurses. SM: Oh. Martha’s sister, you know. CA: I think [unclear]. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: I see. LA: Yes. SM: Because it is quite a brain drain, isn’t it? LA: Yes. Yes, that’s right. SM: Well, most of the medicine there, I understand, is under the government, is that right? LA: Yes. Yes. 27

SM: Yes. So can they hire all of the people that remain? Or they must, I guess if they’re forcing them to stay. LA: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. SM: I see. But I suppose the pay is low. LA: But if you’d be, you know, a doctor, you cannot be unemployed because, you know, as soon as you graduate, you know, there are a lot of hospitals [unclear] for you. CA: There’s a lot of hospitals also. LA: Or else, you know, they build their own clinics. They go for private practice like that. SM: Oh, yes. Oh, they can have a private practice? LA: Oh yes, and you could do that, too. SM: I see. LA: Yes. SM: Are there very many that are in private practice? LA: Yes, there are quite a few, too. SM: I see. Well, would that . . . would their clients, their patients be mainly rich people then? LA: Mmmm, it will be . . . SM: I mean, do they charge more than the government? LA: It will be, you know, a combination, rich and poor. SM: I see. CA: Yes, it’s a combination. SM: Yes. Well, when people go to the doctor in the government hospitals, do they pay for that there? LA: Hmmm, for a consultation, I think they don’t. If you go to the government hospitals, you just pay for, you know, your medicine, like that. 28

CA: Aside from that, we don’t have those benefits that we are . . . that we are getting here now. SM: Yes, with your work. CA: Yes. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. CA: Even when we were in the Philippines, both of us are working. Also we don’t have those kinds of benefits. LA: No. CA: That every time that you went to the doctors, it’s automatically free. SM: Yes. CA: Just like us, I just show my . . . is that the group . . . LA: ID card. CA: Group ID card, so it’s . . . [Chuckles] SM: Is that group health or something? LA: Yes. CA: Yes. SM: Oh, yes. I’m not sure how long, you know, that’s been in effect, since I haven’t lived in Minnesota so long. But I think it’s only really not too long that . . . CA: Oh. SM: That so many people have had that. Like in the state workers of Minnesota, all have it now. LA: Yes. CA: Yes. SM: But it’s the first job I’ve had that ever had that. When I worked for the state. CA: Yes. 29

SM: But it is increasing very much. LA: Yes. SM: Because the medical costs are so impossible, who could pay it. [Chuckles] LA: Yes. [Unclear] yes. Yes, that’s true. CA: That’s true. LA: Just expensive, really. SM: Very much. Well, just, you know, in your own words, [chuckles] what was your main reason for coming? Was it this tradition or . . .? CA: Well, to me, I don’t think it is tradition. In my opinion, I think we got more opportunities here. SM: Yes. CA: So we should take chances on that, the way we, you know . . . SM: Are more of an economic . . . LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Yes. SM: So that’s probably the main reason for most of the new immigrants, wouldn’t it be? CA: Yes. LA: Yes, that’s true. CA: Because America is a more industrialized country than the Philippines is. SM: Yes. CA: So we think that there are more jobs opening here, so there are more good opportunities for us. SM: Yes. Right. LA: We’ve got more chances, really, for advancement. 30

SM: Yes. And is the pay more, in general, as well? LA: Oh, yes. CA: [Laughter] Yes [unclear]. SM: Well, that’s part of the whole thing. LA: And you know, in the Philippines, it’s hard, you know. CA: Yes. LA: Even if you are already graduated from college, it’s still hard for you to look for a job. CA: For a job. SM: Oh. LA: Really. SM: Even for the government or something? LA: Yes. CA: Yes. SM: Oh. LA: Both private and government. SM: What about for doctors and nurses? LA: Well, that’s different, you know. SM: They don’t have any trouble. CA: They [unclear]. LA: Yes, that’s right. But, you know, for other professions like us, you know. SM: Yes. It’s still . . . LA: It’s hard. Yes. SM: Hard to find to a job. 31

LA: Yes. SM: It takes longer than three days? LA: Oh . . . yes! [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] CA: Unlike . . . SM: I think that was unusual. [Chuckles] LA: Yes. I think that’s just unusual, really. SM: Yes. LA: One in a hundred or one in a thousand, I think. [Chuckles] SM: Well, do you see it as something that will benefit your children, too, and so on? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. CA: Yes. SM: Well, they’ll be practically Americans, I suppose. But are you concerned about preserving your own culture for your children? LA: Oh, yes. CA: Yes. That’s one reason why we joined that organization. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] That’s why you go to those organizations. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Yes. LA: Yes, because joining organizations, you know, that will really help you. CA: Mmmm. LA: Really. SM: That will help the children. 32

LA: Oh, yes. Yes. They get involved. So, you know, both of them, they are just loving to be involved in those activities, too. CA: They love [unclear]. LA: They are looking forward again to [unclear] Filipino. SM: Yes. LA: It’s already time this Saturday. CA: Yes, because . . . LA: So they knew already what, you know, what the culture in the Philippines are. SM: Yes. LA: You know, little by little, they could understand it already. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. CA: Yes. They’ve also done some of those Filipino folk dances during my induction. [Chuckles] SM: Oh, yes. So they take . . . the children take part in quite a lot of this stuff. LA: Yes. SM: But are there some youth branches to these organization? CA: Yes, the Junior Fil-Minnesota. LA: There is a Junior Fil-Minnesota. SM: Oh, I see. LA: But those are just for, you know, teenagers already now. [Chuckles] CA: Teenagers. SM: Oh, I see. LA: This is good. 33

SM: Not for little children. LA: No. No. Teenagers. SM: But that’s good though, to have one for teenagers. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Yes. LA: Which is good, that will be a good training ground for them, really. SM: Oh, yes. For the new leaders of the community. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Yes. Well, maybe you should both talk about your activities in these organizations. LA: Oh. [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles] SM: I don’t know who wants to go first. [Chuckles] CA: [Laughing] She gets more activities, ask her. SM [Chuckles] Okay, we’ll start with you. LA: Yes, I’ve got more. Nearly all my time goes to my social activities. SM: [Laughing] You have . . . you have time to work and keep the house, too? LA: Could hardly keep my work already at home! [Laughter] I neglected too much already. SM: I’m amazed that you can do so much . . . . [Recording interruption] LA: . . . involved. I said, “No, not at this time.” [Chuckles] “I’m [unclear] already.” [Chuckles] SM: [Laughing] To speak for five organizations. CA: [Chuckles] 34

SM: Well . . . CA: Mention to her that you are also a member of that Fil-Minnesotan dance troupe, you’re also a member of that Fil-Minnesotan choir. [Chuckles] LA: [Chuckles] SM: Oh . . . well. Okay. Let’s see. You can talk about the Fil-American. [Chuckles] But what’s the purpose, would you say, of the Fil-Minnesotan Club? Is it any different from the FilAmerican or . . .? LA: Oh, yes. They are . . . you know. Fil-American is just . . . a togetherness. But FilMinnesotan is different, you know. SM: What is its purpose? LA: Its purpose is [unclear] culture, you know. SM: For to teach the children or teach everybody? LA: Yes. [Unclear – everybody speaking at once] LA: Yes. Yes. Informal dances, like that. SM: Oh, I see. LA: Yes. SM: Dances, music . . . LA: Yes. It’s music and dramas. SM: Dramas, yes. LA: Yes. CA: And there are some educational parts in there, too, like for example, this [unclear] that taught Tagalog to those . . . SM: Oh. LA: Oh yes, that’s right. 35

SM: Tagalog classes? LA: Yes. CA: To those other . . . to those American Filipinos [unclear].

LA: To [unclear]. CA: Right. SM: To who? LA: To, you know, to those immigrants, you know, the old timers. SM: Oh . . . taught it to them. LA: Yes, he taught Tagalog classes, too, you know. SM: Oh, didn’t some of them know how to talk that? LA: Mmmm, no. No. SM: Oh, depending on . . . no, they didn’t come from Manila though. For the old timers. LA: Yes. SM: Did they come and take it? LA: Yes, they do. CA: [Unclear]. SM: Oh. LA: Yes, some of them took classes, you know. Yes. SM: Oh. LA: Ben Andrada is one of them. SM: Oh, did he really? LA: Yes, he did. Yes. 36

SM: Oh, he’s a real interesting guy. LA: And it was Terry Evangelista [sp?] who is one of teachers in Tagalog. SM: Who is? LA: Terry Evangelista, do you know? SM: Oh no, I don’t know them. LA: [Unclear] one of . . . CA: Choreographer. LA: Choreographer and dance director. SM: Oh, what was her last name? LA: Evangelista. SM: Evangelista. LA: Yes. SM: Well, is there also a desire to make the culture known to other people, the other Americans? LA: Yes. That’s why, you know, we have this Filipinañas, you know, presentation. SM: Oh, yes. LA: For everybody to come and see, you know. SM: Yes. CA: This way we tried to . . . to invite Americans. SM: Yes. Did quite a few come? LA: Oh, yes. SM: Yes. That’s good. Well, that helps me a lot. What about MAAP [Minnesota Asian American Project]? LA: Well that, you know, that’s more Asian [chuckles] Asian culture [unclear] different Asian nationalities. 37

SM: Yes. LA: So . . . SM: That’s for all the Asian . . . LA: Yes. Yes. CA: All Asian countries. LA: All Asian countries already there. SM: Yes. LA: So that will be a combination of all, you know, Asian cultures already there. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. Yes. CA: Chinese, Japanese, Filipino . . . SM: Southeast Asian. LA: Yes. CA: Southeast Asian like [unclear]. LA: [Chuckles] SM: Laos, Hmong. CA: [Unclear]. SM: [Chuckles] Yes. Well, part of their thing is a legal defense and this kind of thing, too. LA: Yes. CM: Yes. SM: Yes. So they have quite a few different purposes. LA: Yes, there’s a lot of, you know, different . . . mmmm, what is the word? 38

SM: Yes. Oral history. LA: Purpose, yes, oral history. SM: Yes. They’re just beginning. LA: Yes, there’s a lot of purposes, really. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: And what about the Filipino Advisory Council? LA: Well, that’s just, you know, a council that was formed to coordinate, you know, activities of all these three clubs. SM: I see. LA: So there will be no interlapping. CA: Overlapping. LA: Oh. You know, overlapping of activities. CA: All the activities of the three clubs. SM: I see. But some didn’t join. Why is that? LA: Well . . . [Chuckles] CA: It’s my group who doesn’t want to join. Because the old timers . . . LA: The old timers, you can’t force them. CA: Doesn’t want to. LA: Yes. SM: [Chuckles] They don’t want to. LA: Yes. SM: Why? 39

CA: But I cannot force them. SM: [Laughing] You’re the president. CA: [Chuckles] I know, of course [unclear]. LA: Well, you know, yes . . . everybody sees the president, they . . . you know, his numbers or his followers don’t want to agree, you know. He can do nothing! CA: I can’t do anything. LA: [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] I can imagine they’d be pretty hard to boss around. [Chuckles] LA: Yes, it is. Yes. CA: [Chuckles] LA: They said, “No, we don’t like that. You can’t do nothing.” SM: Oh. CA: There’s one time that one of the old timers mentioned to me that, “Oh, although you’re the president . . .” He . . . [Laughter] SM: He can’t tell them what to do. Well, what about the Cultural Society [of FilipinoAmericans]? How does that differ from the Fil-Minnesotan? Or maybe it doesn’t? LA: Mmmm. [Unclear – telephone ringing while she is talking]. SM: It looks like [unclear]? LA: No, it’s the same. It looks like it’s the same but only, you know, they have different members. SM: Oh, I see. LA: Yes. SM: But its main thing is culture, too. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Do some people belong to both? 40

LA: Pardon me? SM: Do some people belong to both? LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Well, there’s a lot of culture going on. [Chuckles] LA: Oh, besides the [unclear] yes. Yes. SM: Oh, I see. LA: Yes. SM: Okay. Well then maybe you want to talk about the Fil-American. CA: Oh . . . SM: Or you did talk a little about it, but was there anything else you wanted to add to that? Besides the social . . .? CA: Sometimes also they’re willing to help like those . . . there’s . . . because sometimes Filipinos, they are really in need of some help. Like those . . . there’s one time that they had here, helping out those poor people in certain parts of the Philippines. LA: Yes. SM: Oh. CA: They send some . . . SM: Oh, they send things even to Philippines. LA: Yes, there was one time, you know, a parish priest in a certain area in the Philippines, in the Southern part of the country. A parish priest came here and asked for help, you know. Because they said they are trying to build a church and they could not get any funds from the government and, you know, the people in that area can’t afford. SM: Yes. LA: But they want to have one church. You know, even just a chapel, they said. SM: Yes. 41

LA: So what we did is, you know, everybody contributed. SM: I see. Yes. LA: You know, just to help. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: Or like I guess I saw in the newsletter about a hospital that needs something [unclear]. CA: Yes. LA: Yes. Yes. We are trying to do that, too, you know. We have a doctor. He’s an American but married to a Filipino. SM: Yes. LA: Now and he went to the Philippines for . . . I don’t know what [unclear] he called that. I think he went there for training. SM: Oh. Yes. LA: And he stayed there. So he knew, you know, when he was there, he observed, you know, the difficulties that they are incurring right there. SM: Yes. LA: And he was at the Philippines General Hospital. And he saw there a lot of death, you know. SM: Oh, this was in the newsletter? LA: Yes. Yes. And so he suggested to have an emergency drug fund. SM: Yes. LA: Because he needs . . . he tells us that this needs, you know, to help those poor people who went to the hospital that can’t afford to buy, you know, medicines for themselves. SM: Yes. LA: Because, you know, medicines there are so expensive. CA: Yes. 42

SM: More than here? LA: Oh, yes. Pretty much so. CA: And they don’t have any insurance. SM: Any what? CA: They don’t have any insurance, so their [unclear]. SM: Oh, yes. LA: And if you can’t afford to buy those medicines, then, you know . . . SM: Yes. LA: You will end up dying. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. LA: So he suggested that we might as well do this, you know. SM: Yes. LA: So asking help to all the Filipino community. SM: Yes. LA: To help, you know, this project, which is a good idea, really. SM: Sure. LA: That’s one way of helping those people there who need help. SM: Yes. Right. LA: Yes. SM: So they are partly service? LA: Yes. It’s just charity. CA: Charity. 43

SM: Yes. Yes. LA: Yes, it is charity. SM: What about if there are ever any crises here among the Filipinos? Would they help out? LA: Oh, yes. CA: Yes. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: Yes. Okay. LA: That’s, you know, one purpose of the newsletter, too, you know. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: Yes, there was somebody that . . . excuse me. CA: Yes. That’s alright. SM: Had an operation or something. LA: Yes, that was in Texas. That was really very unfortunate for him. He’d just moved. SM: It sounded like it, yes. I suppose he didn’t know so many people. LA: Yes. And he was an active in here, too, you know. He was active in helping us in the Filipinaña, too, last year. CA: He was an active member of the Fil-Minnesotan. SM: Oh. Too bad. LA: Yes. And then he finally moved. You know, he decided to move in Texas. SM: And he just . . . had got sick right away. LA: Yes. He got sick. CA: I think even his mother is sick. 44

SM: Oh. [Sighs] LA: That was really something else, too. SM: Yes, that’s too bad. So the people here sort of got together to help him. LA: Yes. Yes, were helping him. So I don’t know if what happened already to that, you know, contained their [unclear]. SM: Yes. LA: I hope all the Filipinos will extend their help. SM: Yes. LA: In one way or another they would help them. SM: Probably would. CA: And I think the [unclear]. The [unclear] club or Fil-Minnesotan or in Fil-American gives some donation also for the legal . . . SM: For legal defense? CA: Defense for the two . . . LA: To those two Filipino nurses. CA: Two Filipino nurses. LA: Have you heard about them? SM: Oh, in Michigan or . . . where was that? CA: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: Oh, did they? LA: Yes. SM: The Fil-Minnesotan and which one? LA: The Fil-American. 45

CA: Fil-American. LA: Yes, almost all the three clubs. CA: I think it’s almost the three clubs. SM: Oh. LA: Yes. SM: They were acquitted now, weren’t they? LA: Yes. Right. That was acquitted. CA: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Well, how did that ever come up? Why were they accused? LA: Well . . . SM: Was it just discrimination or . . .? CA: I don’t know. [Chuckles] LA: I don’t know. That’s really hard, you know, to tell. SM: Yes. CA: They just only mentioned in there that they are acquitted. It didn’t say . . . SM: Why. CA: Why. [Chuckles] SM: Well, evidently, they didn’t . . . weren’t guilty. LA: Yes. But they still suffered, you know. They went through . . . you know. SM: Oh, it’s been years, hasn’t it? LA: Yes. CA: Yes. 46

LA: And that’s why they needed help, too, you know. CA: Oh, yes. SM: That’s true. So the groups here did . . .? CA: Yes. They did that. LA: Yes. They did . . . you know, we did extend our help. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. Everybody . . . almost everybody, you know, did help. SM: Yes. Well, that’s really expensive for a legal defense. LA: Yes. Yes. SM: What about your reaction to Minnesota? [Chuckles] LA: Our reaction to Minnesota. Well . . . SM: Oh, you know, how they treat Filipinos. CA: I like . . . I like Minnesota now a lot. LA: I like it, yes. We like Minnesota. We don’t have any problem. CA: We don’t have any problem. LA: The people around this area are nice. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: How did you decide to live out in the country like this? LA: [Chuckles] I want to be in a peaceful community. CA: [Chuckles] SM: Yes. CA: Even when we were in the Philippines we lived in the suburbs. 47

SM: I see. CA: [Chuckles] LA: It’s nice to be really in the suburbs. CA: [Chuckles] LA: It is. SM: Yes, it’s [unclear] too. [Chuckles] LA: It [unclear], you know, it would be in a quiet, you know, area. The streets are not that busy, you know. Where, you know, for you to worry for your kids. SM: Yes. LA: Not like if you are in the city, you know. I figured out, you know, it’s always . . . from time to time, cars are running. SM: Yes. LA: You know. SM: Right. LA: Not like here. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: Do you have a garden and so on? LA: Oh, yes. Yes. SM: Yes. That’s always nice, too. CA: Sometime we plant some Philippine vegetables. LA: Oh. CA: [Chuckles] 48

SM: Well, I bet all your friends want to come and see you then. [Chuckles] LA: [Chuckles] But if you live in the city, you know, you can have a small area there, you know, for your [garden]. CA: You can do that. SM: Yes. LA: Not like here, you know, we have almost an acre lot. SM: Wow. Almost an acre. LA: That will keep us busy during summer. SM: [Chuckles] Yes, but . . . LA: But not this summer! [Chuckles] CA: Oh. [Sighs] SM: I don’t think you need something to keep you busy. [Chuckles] CA: Most of the times this summer we were traveling. SM: Oh, were you? Where did you go? CA: First, we went to Canada, then we went to New York, and New Jersey . . . what else? [Laughter] SM: Really? My goodness. What happened to your garden while you were gone? [Chuckles] LA: It was neglected. CA: Neglected. [Chuckles] LA: We started, you know, and then we finally neglected, so . . . that’s okay. CA: We even forgot to dig those onions that we . . . [Chuckles] SM: Oh, before winter came? LA: We planted onions and we forgot all about it. CA: We forget. [Chuckles] 49

SM: That’s easy to do. They’re hidden. [Chuckles] LA: Yes. They’re all frozen over. SM: So you haven’t had any kind of discrimination? LA: No. SM: Or like in buying a house or anything? LA: No. SM: Or work or anything like that? LA: No. No. SM: And your children never had any trouble? LA: No. CA: That’s what we observe here, some of our . . . or all of our neighbors are so good. LA: They’re so nice. SM: Oh, that’s nice. CA: There’s one time that . . . especially when . . . when we had just moved here. SM: Yes. CA: We don’t have any snow blower and so on. SM: Yes. CA: But when we arrive, that driveway was so clean. SM: Oh . . . CA: And it’s one of our neighbors who did that. SM: That’s really nice. Do these people mostly work in the city around here or do they work nearby or . . .? LA: They . . . I think they’re in the city, too. 50

CA: They’re in the city, too. SM: Yes. LA: Most of them are in the city. SM: Hmmm. LA: Yes. CA: It’s . . . I think we’ve got very good neighbors. SM: Yes. Oh, that’s really nice. LA: Yes. We don’t have any problems since we came here. CA: We don’t have any problems. LA: You know, most of the time we leave our things outside, you know. CA: Sometimes it’s open. [Chuckles] LA: Sometime I’ve even forgot to lock the door. CA: We even forget to lock the door, but . . . SM: Oh. Doesn’t matter too much. LA: [Unclear] yes. Yes. SM: That’s good. LA: Yes, you know, we haven’t heard nothing, you know. Because since we came here, you know, sometimes we go . . . you know, we are out of town for a whole week. SM: Yes. LA: And we get out of the house, we arrive, the same thing. Nothing. SM: Yes. That’s good. LA: So we don’t have any worry at all, you know. SM: That’s really nice. 51

CA: And sometimes we go camping, but . . . SM: Oh, do you? CA: Yes. SM: Where do you go camping? CA: We went on [unclear]. LA: Up north. [Chuckles] SM: Oh. CA: [Unclear] . . . is that Osakis? LA: Yes. Osakis. SM: Osakis? LA: Yes. CA: Yes, Osakis. SM: Is that a park or . . .? LA: No, that’s . . . CA: No, it’s close to Alexandria also. SM: Oh, I see. CA: It’s between Saint Cloud and Alexandria, isn’t it? SM: Oh. Yes. CA: Osakis. SM: Oh, Osakis. CA: Yes. SM: I see. Hmmm. 52

LA: It’s fun going camping. SM: Oh, yes. It’s very nice. The children love it, I bet. LA: It’s tiring, but it’s fun. [Chuckles] SM: Maybe you could put something on the tape about explaining that term Filipino and Pilipino. LA: Oh. [Chuckles] SM: [Chuckles] I’m sorry you have to go through it again. CA: Can explain again. SM: But . . . somebody might be interested in it. LA: Yes. Well, as for me, you know, the word Filipino, F-I-L-I-P-I-N-O, that you know, you are talking about your nationality. SM: Yes. LA: But when it comes to Pilipino, P-I-L-I-P-I-N-O, it means, you know, the language in the Philippines. SM: Yes. LA: Besides telling it in Tagalog, it will be a Pilipino language. SM: I see. LA: That’s the way I transcribe it, you know. SM: Yes. LA: That I may analyze it. SM: Yes. LA: But, you know, as far as the two words are concerned, almost the same meaning. [Chuckles] SM: Yes, it’s just a matter of when you might use it. LA: Yes, when you might say, then you use it, you know, like that. 53

SM: Do some people use it differently? I mean, do some people use one more than the other, or more than you do, like Pilipino or something? LA: Yes. Yes. SM: So that might change, I suppose, in the future? LA: Yes [unclear]. That’s right. It might change. SM: What do you . . .? Do you ever use it? [Chuckles] LA: [Chuckles] I think that most of the time, if they asked, you know . . . CA: Sometimes I don’t think we are using P as in Pilipino or F as in Filipino sometimes . . . [Chuckles] SM: You just use it interchangeably then. LA: Yes, that’s right. SM: Oh, yes. LA: But for me, you know, if I meet a new acquaintance. “What nationality are you?” And I said, “I am a Filipino.” SM: Yes. Right. LA: I never say, “I am a Pilipino.” I always say, “I am a Filipino.” SM: Yes. Have you ever heard anyone say, “I am a Pilipino”? LA: I haven’t heard one yet. SM: They use that more of like for the cultural dramas and that kind of thing. CA: Yes. LA: Yes, right. Yes. Yes. SM: The traditional . . . LA: Yes. Because when we were in the Filipinaña [sp?] you know, we said Filipino. SM: Yes. 54

LA: I am a Filipino. SM: Oh, you said I am a Filipino. LA: Yes, I am a Filipino. SM: In the drama you said that. LA: In the drama, yes. But when it comes to that term, it is Filipinaña, so they use F. SM: Yes, that’s what really puzzled me. CA: Yes. LA: Is that right? [Unclear]. SM: Yes. Well . . . LA: It should have been Pilipinaña, P. SM: Pilipinaña. Really. LA: But we use F. SM: I was surprised, too. CA: Yes, but there’s one time that they spelled it P. There’s one time. The first one. SM: Yes, on one of those notices there was a P. CA: The first one. [Chuckles] LA: But if they say Pasko Pilipino [Filipino Christmas], then that’s . . . that is P. CA: It’s P. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. Yes. LA: Which means, you know, Philippine Christmas. SM: Oh. And they did use a P there. LA: Yes, they use that P. But in Filipinaña, they use F. CA: F. [Chuckles] 55

SM: Maybe because it’s just coming into use and so they don’t use it consistently. LA: Yes. Yes. No, it’s not used consistently really. CA: Yes. SM: Right. Is it used more in San Francisco or someplace like that? LA: I really don’t know. I [unclear] you know. SM: Yes. What about in the Philippines? Will they use it more there? Is it a new term? LA: It depends upon the term when they use it. CA: The term. Most of the time they say Tagalog, it’s not Filipino. LA: If they’re [unclear] you know, in a certain occasion, it’s, you know, in Tagalog, then they say Pilipino. They use P. SM: Oh. So . . . yes. It fits in with the Tagalog language. LA: Yes. Yes, right. SM: They don’t use that [unclear]. LA: It’s really . . . yes. No. SM: Yes. LA: It really fits in Tagalog. SM: So that’s probably where it came from, is it? LA: Yes. Yes. Yes. SM: I see. LA: If you are really using Tagalog language, then you use P. SM: You wouldn’t say Filipino if you were speaking Tagalog. LA: No. SM: Oh, well that’s a good explanation then. 56

LA: Yes. If you speak really in Tagalog language then you use Pilipino. SM: Yes. So if you’re speaking English and Spanish, then you would tell them . . . LA: Yes, then you say Filipino. Yes. SM: I see. Well, that helps. LA: So that’s the way I distinguish myself. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. Right. But in general everyday talk in Minnesota, it’s not usually used very much? LA: Yes. No. CA: No. SM: Only in dramas or productions like that. CA: Yes. LA: Yes, that’s right. Yes. That’s why we are presenting this, you know, culture. SM: Yes. LA: To tell the . . . you know, all the people in the community about . . . about the Philippines, you know. SM: Yes. Yes. Well, that helps a lot. LA: The cultures and traditions up there. [Chuckles] SM: Right. LA: Which is something else, too, you know, for the Americans to see and to know. SM: Sure. CA: Yes. And every year they have a different theme. Or different motif. LA: Yes. CA: Like last year it’s Philippine holidays. LA: Yes. 57

CA: This year it’s Philippine history. SM: Yes. CA: I don’t know next year. [Chuckles] SM: Yes. Well, I was really sorry to miss that. CA: We started practicing way back in July. SM: Oh, really? LA: Yes. It takes that long. CA: July. SM: Mmmm. Let’s see if there was anything I was going to ask you that I didn’t. Well, I think we’ve just about covered it. Is there anything [chuckles] you wanted to say that I didn’t think of to ask you? LA: No. SM: Did you find it hard to get used to . . .? CA: For me to ask you what you comment about us? [Chuckles] SM: What I comment about you? CA: Yes. [Chuckles] SM: Well, I think you’ve certainly adapted rather well. But has it been painful to, you know, change cultures? Was it hard to do that? Or sort of interesting or . . .? LA: Mmmm. CA: It’s not been real [unclear]. LA: I don’t see any hardship at all for me [unclear] people there are. SM: Yes. Well, Filipinos already know the language and so on. LA: [Unclear] and you know, it looks like it’s almost the same, you know. SM: [Chuckles] I suppose it is the same as the city and [unclear]. 58

LA: Yes. CA: Yes. LA: I didn’t see any much . . . great difference, really. SM: Yes. LA: Yes. SM: Is that because of the American rule there for so long or . . .? LA: I think so. CA: I think so. LA: Because when it comes to food, you know . . . SM: Oh, that’s a big thing. LA: Yes, when it comes to food, we could, you know, we could prepare our own food here in the Filipino way because we could [unclear] Philippine foods in here too, you know. SM: Yes. So food is one thing though that many have mentioned they don’t like to eat American food too much. LA: Yes. Right. Yes. SM: That’s one of the hardest things to do. CA: I do like it. SM: Do you? CA: Yes, no problem. SM: Yes. How about your children? I suppose they like it. LA: Oh, they’re used to it already. CA: They’re used to it. LA: Yes. 59

SM: [Chuckles] CA: [Chuckles]

LA: [Unclear]. SM: Sure. CA: Yes. Because in our case, because both of us grew up in the city. SM: Yes. CA: It’s not really very hard for us to adjust ourselves. SM: Right. CA: Especially most of the time. Or especially with our kids most of the time just dealing with those American [unclear]. SM: Yes. CA: In my case, it’s really different because most of the time I usually talked to those other Filipinos. [Chuckles] SM: You mean in the Philippines? CA: Yes, in the Philippines. SM: Yes. Oh, I see. She was talking with Americans even in the Philippines. CA: Yes. SM: Yes, so that wouldn’t be a hard adjustment at all. CA: Yes. Unlike in my case, it’s really different. SM: Yes. CA: The only time that we used to . . . we used to speak English when there was some examiner [unclear] talking to [unclear]. SM: Right. CA: [Unclear] here. 60

SM: Yes. So she had a lot of practice before she came. CA: Yes. And that’s one reason why I joined the Toastmasters Club here. SM: I see. Yes, to get more . . . CA: More . . . SM: A chance to . . . CA: To improve my communication skill. SM: Yes. Right. CA: And now . . . [Chuckles] SM: Well . . . CA: And that’s one reason also why I run . . . one reason why I ran for presidency, too, with this [unclear]. SM: Oh, sure. CA: Because there are . . . some of our members are married to Americans. SM: Yes. CA: And we are always using English when presiding at the meeting. SM: Oh, I see. Well, do some of these organizations in their meetings use Tagalog? CA: No, English. SM: Oh, they all use English. Because too many people [unclear] dialects anyway. CA: Yes. And they seldom . . . sometimes I think they seldom talk in Tagalog because it’s very [unclear] to those Filipinos who are married to those Americans. Because the Americans [chuckles] might think that they’re talking about you and . . . . SM: Yes. When you are talking about a Filipino woman, you say Filipina or can you say Filipino woman? CA: Yes, too. 61

SM: You don’t say Filipina woman, do you? Or do you? CA: We can say Filipina woman, too. SM: Yes. Yes. Yes, that’s the feminine . . . I see. Well, thank you very much. CA: [Chuckles] SM: It’s been very nice to talk to you. CA: Yes, and with us. [Unclear]. [Chuckles] SM: If we think of more, we’ll ask you later. [Chuckles] CA: Yes.

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